Best upgrade? Hypertherm? AVHC? PlasmaCam?

[gamble]

Trying to get a long term goal here for when I get more work. What would be my best upgrade for my torchmate?
Hypertherm powermax 45?
Torchmate height control for $3k?
or sell it and just get a plasmacam with height control? (not sure what the cost is yet

[Brand X]

Seems like you would of learned your lesson on closed sourced software by now. Guess not.. Get onto Sheetcam, and one of Tom's THC/motor setups. Buy one complete or just build one with all the welding machine you have. Never been easier.. The plasma cutter brand is about irreverent at this point, because there are more then one good option there. Deals show up all the time on quality machines. Why not look at the LDR tables out your way. Can't be that far from you.. Seems like great support there..

[jimcolt]

Kind of depends on what thicknesses you are cutting on the Torchmate 2 x 2. If you are staying under 1/4" thickness and your slats are kept clean and level....then you would see a huge difference in cut quality with just the plasma upgrade (from your non shielded Longevity plasma) to a Powermax45. The 45 will pierce 1/4" at the cut height (.06") without major damage to the consumables. You will experience longer consumable life, better edge angularity, and overall cut quality consistency as compared to the system you are using.

There are a lot of people using the Torchmate machines and software that are happy with them. From my experience the Torch Height Control from Torchmate leaves a lot to be desired. It has issues with diving in corners as it is not intimately tied to the cnc control software as most cnc/plasma height controls are.

If you need to cut thicker than 1/4"...the Powermax45 will do a good job piercing to 1/2", however you must pierce at the recommended pierce height (from the many pages of cut charts in the operators manual)...then cut at the cut height. Piercing at the cut height on materials over 1/4" with the 45 will shorten nozzle life....so the advantages of this system become less attractive. The Torchmate AVHC will allow correct pierce height/cut height.....however it, as stated above...has other issues. Nice thing about the Hypertherm (and some other majors) is that the cutting process parameters are pretty much all calculated so you will require less time experimenting to get the right speed, height, consumables and amperage for your application.

The electronics software kits from http://www.candcnc.com coupled with machine mechanical components from http://www.precisionplasmallc.com are attractive if you can do some fabricating yourself and are on a tight budget. (LDR uses the Candcnc components as do a few other machine builders).

Plasmacam is a great choice for an (almost) turnkey system....however with the software upgrades for advanced THC and motion control you will find the 4 x 4 machines (without plasma) will be priced at about $11k. Same as a fully equipped Torchmate 4x4 and most brands. Buying stripped machines (software and no height control) for $3k to $5k will not get improvements in cut quality, performance and productivity.

What some call "closed source" software is really not an issue. This means that the machine (PlasmaCam and Torchmate) use their own motion control software. Most machines on the market use Mach3....which is a universal machine control software that takes GCode and converts it to the signals that tell motors direction and speed....as well as sending I/O (input, output) signals to start the cutting process, the THC, and whatever other tools you may have on the machine. PlasmaCam, Torchmate and others use their own internal software that was specifically designed for plasma cutting (as all high end industrial machines do) which eliminates complex layers of setting screens that have noting to do with plasma cutting. With the Plasmacam and Torchmate softwares you are free to use virtually any CAD drawing package (input as either a .dxf file or GCode) and any nesting or CAM package if you so desire. My experience with both Plasmacam and Torchmate software is that their CAD/CAM is as good if not better than many others....and both companies have excellent tech support to help you through learning curves specific to plasma cutting.

Of course the Mach 3 machine software can be considered advantageous if you like to tinker with settings....such as tuning drives, tweaking background settings or adding other tools to the machine.

The nice thing....there are many choices out there! With plasma cutting....the keys to best cut quality are in the height control, the motion control (accuracy, fluidic motion, good acceleration at all speeds), and of course with the plasma process......

Jim Colt Hypertherm

Trying to get a long term goal here for when I get more work. What would be my best upgrade for my torchmate?
Hypertherm powermax 45?
Torchmate height control for $3k?
or sell it and just get a plasmacam with height control? (not sure what the cost is yet

[Brand X]

Something to consider. When you go with a mach based system, you get guys like Les at SheetCam, and Tom/Luke at CandCNC moving the bar all the time. Nobody on the Net is as helpful as Les at SheetCam for average Plasma users. Proven over ten years, and not one negative review of his work. He will write you posts, you are not even sure you need.

[gamble]

Everything I've done thus far has been from .060 to 1/4". I've done 1/4 maybe once or twice that's it. I can see me getting a 4x4 in the future, but that's far from now.
That's the biggest issue for me is the lack of specs in the manual. Doesn't even give me a good pressure to work with. I had all sorts of cutting issues last night, ruined a lot of metal. Cutting 1/8" at 125IPM at 40amps, wouldn't cut through. I had it set to 72psi on the back of the plasma cutter. Maybe a tad higher. Turned it down to 60psi and it was cutting like a champ!

Still having that problem with oblong holes and tapered ends. Pics to follow tonight. I also feel like I am killing tips very quickly. And at $7 a tip it's ridiculous. I tried the s45 consumables and it cut like garbage. Have not tried it with lower pressure yet, but I will tonight. So it's just a consistent battle of what is the correct settings.

My slates are full of junk. Trying to see if I can borrow someone's 7" grinder and go to town, unless there is an easier way to do so.

I really do like the software so far on torchmate. But not sure on the rest. The control box wouldn't connect the other day and then it started to work the next day. Very strange.
Also wondering if it's odd that everytime I turn on the control box the torch fires for a second.

[jimcolt]

Here is just one page (of many) of the cut charts from the Powermax45 operators manual.

Jim

cutchartsteel.png

[gamble]

I saw those. I printed out the entire book when I had my 45. But I only used it twice and sold it to fund the table.
Amazing at how fast they are rated for.
Jim, anyway to convert using a hypertherm torch on my machine?

I just got what appears to be a very solid customer but it sucks when I have to grind the edge and re drill the holes.

[jimcolt]

Putting the Powermax45 on the 2 x 2 torchmate is simple....I recommend the machine torch which fits the same holder as your machine torch. Since you don't have height control you only need to connect 2 wires (start) to pins 3 and 4 on the CPC interface connector.

Jim

I saw those. I printed out the entire book when I had my 45. But I only used it twice and sold it to fund the table.
Amazing at how fast they are rated for.
Jim, anyway to convert using a hypertherm torch on my machine?

I just got what appears to be a very solid customer but it sucks when I have to grind the edge and re drill the holes.

[Metriccar]

Gamble,

I believe there is someone else on here that uses a Longevity torch. Maybe you can share notes with them to try to determine the best cut charts if you are in a bind.

I don't know how much metal Hypertherm went through to come up with those cut charts, but I understand it was a lot, meaning a lot of time and money spent.

To do the same with your Longevity, you could easily spend more in metal and time trying to make Longevity cut charts than the Hypertherm (or whatever brand) plasma cutter would cost, and STILL have not as good results.

Second, how are you getting 2x2 sheets?

My steel yard has 2x2 sheets, but I pay a LOT more than the 4x8 sheets. Quite often they will not charge to cut it in half, but sometimes they do.

If you get a 4x4 table not only can you make bigger things but I can see cutting down on metal cost.

In summary if I were in your position I would do everything I could to get a namebrand plasma cutter and a decent 4x4 table at least. I hear a lot of good things about LDR. If I were to do this again and go with a Mach 3 and on a strict budget, I'd seriously look into his machine. I think there are benefits to "open source" such as Mach3. For instance with PlasmaCAM, I cannot adapt a "Scannything" type program onto it. I am stuck with whatever PlasmaCAM decides to do or not do with the software.

If I were you I'd look for used equipment.

[jimcolt]

First...plasmacam already can import scanned files and modify them to cut, second, if you want to spend more and use an external raster to vector scanning software....simply save the file as a .dxf which imports instantly into the onboard software. No GCode to ever mess with.

Jim

Gamble,

I believe there is someone else on here that uses a Longevity torch. Maybe you can share notes with them to try to determine the best cut charts if you are in a bind.

I don't know how much metal Hypertherm went through to come up with those cut charts, but I understand it was a lot, meaning a lot of time and money spent.

To do the same with your Longevity, you could easily spend more in metal and time trying to make Longevity cut charts than the Hypertherm (or whatever brand) plasma cutter would cost, and STILL have not as good results.

Second, how are you getting 2x2 sheets?

My steel yard has 2x2 sheets, but I pay a LOT more than the 4x8 sheets. Quite often they will not charge to cut it in half, but sometimes they do.

If you get a 4x4 table not only can you make bigger things but I can see cutting down on metal cost.

In summary if I were in your position I would do everything I could to get a namebrand plasma cutter and a decent 4x4 table at least. I hear a lot of good things about LDR. If I were to do this again and go with a Mach 3 and on a strict budget, I'd seriously look into his machine. I think there are benefits to "open source" such as Mach3. For instance with PlasmaCAM, I cannot adapt a "Scannything" type program onto it. I am stuck with whatever PlasmaCAM decides to do or not do with the software.

If I were you I'd look for used equipment.

[Metriccar]

With scanything you can put an object on the table and it will trace the outline with robotic vision and create a cut file. I could really use that.

[jimcolt]

OK...that's a bit different. And that works with Mach?

Jim Colt

With scanything you can put an object on the table and it will trace the outline with robotic vision and create a cut file. I could really use that.

[grindergary]

Hey Jim,

Try this link to a youtube vid of the scanything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wlb6wgCgbY

Gary

[Brand X]

OK...that's a bit different. And that works with Mach?

Jim Colt

With scanything you can put an object on the table and it will trace the outline with robotic vision and create a cut file. I could really use that.

It's another program Les designed.. (SheetCam)

[rikduk]

If you're looking at good, affordable tables, look at Bulltear too.

[comeoutswingin]

As one of the First to build a 4x4 table for my 2x2 torchmate to set on, i'll tell you this. I'm ditching Torchmate as soon as I can. I have the 4x4 growth series with height control and a TD Cutmaster 52. The cutmaster is crap. I'm buying a hypertherm Monday. As Jim says, the height control leaves A ALOT to be desired. Corner lockout, freezing for holes, the fact the other day I turned it on and it decided to freak out and snap the beam clamp off. Knowing what I know now, even though most said it before I went this route I'd stop at the 2x2 and swing for the big league.

Lately my focus has been move as much product as possible to generate enough money to buy an LDR 5x10 table.

Torchmate was pretty good before they became Lincoln. Their biggest factor was support. I haven't needed support as much as I thought I would to run the table. Most my support issues had been with receiving my avhc assembled incorrectly, or when i needed to fork over more money to get new driver cards when mine went bad.

My experience with Torchmate lately leaves a ton to be desired. Didn't use to be that way.

[gamble]

I'm going to try and see if I can find someone with a PM45 and do a side by side comparison. I think I'd probably go with a go torch or something else other than torchmate next time around for sure. I would want to buy a water table for sure though, I tried to make a coffee table and I have a hard time keeping things straight without warping and twisting.


Here is my updated thread for the ongoing issues I'm currently having
http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14608

Oh I get my 2x2 material from online metals.com

[jimcolt]

Gamble,

A water tray or water table (two different types of fume control) is not designed to stop warpage, rather it is a fume control system. The correct way to minimize warpage is by cutting at the correct power level, correct speed and correct height. Two of my three cnc tables have a downdraft system....no warpage. Water in contact with the sheet or plate increases the likelihood of dross and roughens the cut edge. If you are using too much power or cutting too slow...the water will cool the material and will minimize warpage....however expect dross under these conditions.

Water is a great fume control method as it traps the particles effectively, however it has it's drawbacks. Downdraft, properly designed is a great fume control system as well.....with drawbacks as well. Neither is perfect....but for cut quality and no rust or water on the moving parts of my machine... I prefer downdraft.

Jim Colt

[kkroger]

2x2 I doubt seriously if you really NEED a height control, the PM45 Hypertherm would be my first goal.
I have height control and so far have not needed it, I would like to have a PM65 or 85 to go with my table, perhaps after first of the year.

[gamble]

I'll be doing some testing with the PM45 next week. Going to do some cuts with my setup and borrow a PM45 for an hour or so and do the same cuts. Will be interesting to see the results.
With the PM45 do you always need 90psi ?

[plain ol Bill]

If you don't have a THC on your machine you need one to get the best quality cuts. Can you run without one - sure, but (always a but isn't there ) you cannot maintain proper torch height without one. 1/2" plate is stable material isn't it - I cut some today and you would be amazed how much torch up and down action there is on a eight inch circle cut out of 1/2.

[jimcolt]

The Powermax45 requires a minimum of 90 psi when air is flowing (turn the amperage knob fully CCW to activate airflow without firing the arc.) and a maximum of 125 psi. The cut air flow is set , again with the air flowing, until the LED air pressure indicators are satisfied (on the front panel).

Jim Colt Hypertherm

I'll be doing some testing with the PM45 next week. Going to do some cuts with my setup and borrow a PM45 for an hour or so and do the same cuts. Will be interesting to see the results.
With the PM45 do you always need 90psi ?

[jimcolt]

No one "Needs" height control. Height control (the good ones anyway) maintains real time cut height within about .005" of whatever it is set to maintain. It also automatically finds the surface of the plate before each cut and recalibrates itself to that. This compensates for electrode wear in the torch as well. Height control (again, a good one) allows you to program and nest hundreds of parts....and walk away from the machine.

So.....if you want best cut quality, best consumable life, and best productivity.....then Yes! You need height control. If those things are not as important and you are cutting 1 part at a time....especially on a small cutting bed like a 2 x 2 table....then you can cut without height control, many do.

I would not own a plasma table without a good quality height control system. I have advanced height control on my 4 x 4 machine as well as my 2 x 2 machine.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

2x2 I doubt seriously if you really NEED a height control, the PM45 Hypertherm would be my first goal.
I have height control and so far have not needed it, I would like to have a PM65 or 85 to go with my table, perhaps after first of the year.