JD Squared vs Bulltear 4 x 8

[tylerd]

Hello all,
This is my first post but have been lurking for quite a while. I have done what I consider to be more than a fair amount of research, building vs buying, research between brands...etc. I am looking for opinions as to what table you would buy between either of these. I am looking at a 4x8 size and will be hopefully purchasing soon, just wanted to get some feedback either way. Please be specific on why you would choose one over the other. Perhaps this could help some others on the fence also, I figure the more info the better as this is no small purchase! If the admins find this inappropriate please take it down, as it was not intended that way, like I said just trying to get some feedback. Thanks in advance for everyone's input as there is much knowledge on this forum!

[Dennis]

Do yourself a favor and Call or better yet Visit the companies your thinking of purchasing from and ask them the questions you need to know.... seems like a lot of money to spend on the advise of complete strangers.

[motoguy]

I'm really happy with my Bulltear 6x12. The JD^2 looked interesting, but in other discussion groups it appears they're having software issues with the table. I don't remember the exact details, just some unhappy owners unable to use their tables. That big gantry looks rigid, but also HEAVY. I believe it's running servos for control.

JD^2 has a good reputation with their other products. However, there is a massive learning curve in using/producing a plasma table, and bringing it to market. Bulltear / Star Lab has a proven track record, a great product, outstanding support, and with CommandCNC, seems to have a great control system as well.

I'm sure the JD^2 setup will eventually be good, if it isn't already. However, the Bulltear setup is known to be a great setup right NOW. I didn't want to gamble with my money. I couldn't afford to do so. There was a significant installed base of Bulltear owners, seemingly all happy with their table. JD^2 owners are still rare. That doesn't mean the table is lacking...just that there are a dearth of data points.

When I purchased my Bulltear, CommandCNC (Linux) had just hit the market. I ordered mine with Mach3, instead. Same reason...new product, few users, unknown bugs. Mach has some known issues, but a HUGE user base and lots of knowledge/workarounds/plugins. I chose to go with the known quantity. I'm glad I did so. CommandCNC went through some growing pains, and unhappy people. Now, over a year later, it seems to have matured into a great setup that users love. As such, I plan to upgrade my Mach system to CommandCNC in the near future.

I'm not big on being an early adopter.

[tylerd]

Well ordered the Bulltear...4x8 via Ebay with the servo upgrade and ethercut. Estimated delivery Sat, Apr 15 - Thu, Apr 20..hopefully the rest of this transaction\experience goes smoothly! I will keep updated.

[BTA Plasma]

Oh I think your machine will be ready far before April 15th...lol.

[little blue choo]

Congratulation on ordering your new table. Keep us posted on how things go. Hope to see you posting projects on here soon and remember now is the time to start studying your software so when your table arrives you can hit the ground running.

Rick

[tylerd]

I will attempt to keep this post updated, although admittedly I am pretty bad about such things. Good news to hear it will be hear before the 15th getting pretty excited! Next up is delivery and getting it into my garage!

[szextreme]

You made the right choice by Far!

[tylerd]

She got here on friday, and she is sweet, does anyone have one of these with the servos? I am attempting to figure out how the motors mount to the main X axis. I will get some pics up in the next couple of days!!

[FazQuaz]

I thought the tables came assembled? I am looking into buying the same thing so I am very interested in how it goes for you.

[BTA Plasma]

Servo Star Lab systems come fully assembled but the side motors are taken off for shipping/crating so they aren't damaged in transit. There is a machined pocket they fit into.

[tylerd]

Yeah, I made that way harder than it needed to be ha!

[BTA Plasma]

Great so you got your motors mounted? Did you order your machine with the jeweler (scribe)?

[tylerd]

We will see how this goes....well here is 1 pic atleast, I will have to resize them all but for the meantime here is this!

[FazQuaz]

That looks awesome! What made you go with Servo's? I was planning on doing servo's but everything I read about makes me believe there is no real advantage.

[tylerd]

Most of everything I read led me to servo's, I will let someone else chime in on technical benefits, and the upgrade was relatively cheap so it was not hard decision to make. I did not get the air scribe with my unit, maybe in the future you never know.

[jimcolt]

On most small light industrial tables you will not see cut quality differences between steppers and servos....unless the steppers are undersized for the mass of the gantry and torch carriage. If you do a lot of material thickness variations.....like cutting some 1" steel then some 26 gauge steel there will be a major speed variation, perhaps 10 ipm on the 1" and 350 ipm or more on the 26 gauge for best quality on each. The big advantage for servos is a wider speed/torque curve that allows excellent acceleration at all speed ranges....where steppers will tend to have their best acceleration in a narrower speed range based on the gear reduction and mass of the moving parts of the machine.

When you start looking at high end industrial CNC plasma tables (and laser and waterjet) you will see only servos used. Servos are more complex and expensive, biggest reasons why steppers are used on smaller, lighter, lower cost machines.

Again, nothing wrong with steppers if they are matched to the mass and geared correctly. There is at least one large producer of "low cost" tables that uses way undersized stepper drives, and it shows when cutting thin materials (no names mentioned!). Jim Colt Hypertherm

[tylerd]

Yep, what Jim said, thanks for chiming in!

[tylerd]

Now I could use some input on converting the water table to a downdraft. I know water tables are nice and all, but I live in FL, on a canal surrounded by water, the humidity today is 80% in less than a month it will be 100% humidity everyday up until mid Oct, beginning of Nov. And this is considered the dry season. So adding drums full of water is a no go for me in my garage. My Table is 4x8..water table is a little larger than that, I will have to measure it. I am thinking either break out my mag drill and drill alot of holes, or cut sections out of the water table and weld in some expanded metal in place of the cutouts. There is a center beam running down the middle so have to work around that and the side rails, but even with those restrictions, I think a big enough fan would get the job done, say 24 or 30 inch shutter fan. Then I could just either put in the skirt panels or do the pyramid plenum deal. I am just kind of wondering if large volumes of air rushing through little circles is going increase the noise, I am betting it will, but oh well. I am leaning on drilling first, if that dont work then I can cut and weld if I have to. I will have a very short run of ducting like less than 10ft to get to the fan. Just wanted some input on decent fans, ducting design, like 1 large or 2 smaller ducts. Basically any input would be appreciated as I am pretty new to this, I have read a large amount of build and design threads though. It will be a while before I decide on what steps I want to take, as I am going to relocate my compressor outside before I do any table modifications.

Anyways Thanks again for any input!

[szextreme]

Fill it with water add the concoction of your choice to keep mold/algae out and and add water as needed and re-up the concoction as needed. I am in Pinellas county FL. and have a 5x12 Bulltear the watertable is by far the way to go especially with warpage on thin metal and less smoke rolling around the shop. Just my .02 I think you will regret turning it into a downdraft

[jimcolt]

And on the other hand, I am a long time proponent of downdraft tables. When water contacts the cut edge it causes edge roughness and more chance of dross. Further, water on the surface of the material makes the ohmic sense process sense the surface of the water instead of the material....so pierce height and physical cut height will be incorrect. Water splashing on the moving parts of your machine will also require cleaning and maintenance long before a dry downdraft table will. Properly designed...there is no smoke from a downdraft. Warpage is best solved by cutting at the correct power level, cut speed and cut height. My opinion, of course! Jim Colt Hypertherm

[BTA Plasma]

I cannot fathom what drives people to machines with unprotected rails and no wipers or scrapers. There is no way possible in the world of physics that you will not get something on that rail that will dimple it and the wheel in short order. We currently use 5 gothic arch wheels on each side with a spring loaded oiler/scraper. Without this you will pickup pieces on the rail in a matter of days. What JD basically said was linear rails are best for motion but often unprotected so what we did was design this machine without any linear rails and totally unprotected. That being said water tables are our favorite syle until after the part is dripping water in your hand.