HyperTherm Powermax 45 not kicking off

[WinterFabrication]

Hello,

I have a BurnTables 4x8 and Hypertherm 45. I am very new to this....

But yesterday I was cutting some "V8" logos that were already on the computer, just to get some practice. While is was about halfway through one of the cuts, the plasma cutter cut off and the airflow stopped.

I haven't been able to get it to cut on since. When I load a g-code and start the cycle, I can hear a "click" from inside the BurnTables control box, but nothing actually happens (cutter doesn't cut on, and no air flow).

Could it be a simple setting I accidentally clicked, or does the BurnTables box or the plasma cutter have a fuse that might've blown?

Any help is greatly appreciated

[acourtjester]

Generally speaking when something stops unexpectedly something broke.
Have you looked at the front of the hypertherm for any fault lights.
What happens when you run a g-code if you get to a point where the plasma should have come on and did not you could have a trigger problem. What I mean is the hypertherm is not being told to turn on the torch. Or is you have a THC it is not getting ARC ok because the torch is not lighting. First thing check the torch trigger output this is a simple contact being made by the controller and you could put a ohm meter on the pins for the torch trigger and see what happens when it should light the torch. you should see a short on the ohm meter is the trigger works.
Can you manually operate the hypertherm

[WinterFabrication]

Thanks for the reply.

-While running g-code and it gets to the point where it should've come on, I hear a "click" from the control box (I assume a relay). But nothing actually happens with the torch. So I agree its not being told to turn on.

-The software/machine has THC but I turn it off because it didn't seem to want to work with it on. It was running fine without it.

-Do you know which pins should have voltage when it is triggering?

-I haven't manually operated the plasma cutter because I only have a machine torch.

[acourtjester]

Ok it sounds like the relay is trying to turn the torch on (clicking sound inside the controller).
The hypertherm has a connector on the back which connects to the controller wired to pins 3 an 4 are the contacts from that relay in the controller (I have a PM 65) I assume your 45 has the same. Does the 45 look normal no faults or error messages?
Do you have a good air supply to the unit? If all is normal you could trigger the torch to test it manually by shorting the wires connected to the trigger. But make sure you have the proch positioned near the metal (.150") with a ground connected like it was going to cut to do the test. AND ONLY SHORT THE WIRES FOR A VERY SHORT TEST THEN DIS-CONNECT THEM.
If it fires like it should then the wires from the controller may be broken and that is why it is not working.

[WinterFabrication]

Now we're getting somewhere, thanks for your help!

I jumpered Pins 3 & 4 and it DID cut on the plasma torch.

So you're saying that puts the issue internal to the controller box?

[acourtjester]

yes you said you heard the clicking from the controller which may have been the relay to trigger the torch on.
It is either the relay itself (bad contacts) or broken wires. There is no current on the contacts so they should not have burned up could be dirty.

[WinterFabrication]

Well (hopefully) I think I may have found the problem.

Opened up the box (a little disappointed on the quality of wiring, to say the least). I traced the 2 wires that control the plasma on/off to its circuit card. I found this little piece broken/burnt. Does anybody know if it's something I can get at Radio Shack and just solder in a new one?

Thanks in advance!

[WinterFabrication]

The actual burnt up part...

[acourtjester]

Looks like Tuesday call to tech support is in order.
You may see if Jim Colt can give you an answer if he is not off on holiday but since he had not already posted for this problem I would say he is.

[jimcolt]

That is not a Hypertherm issue....you would not find wiring that looks like that in one of our plasma cutters! In an earlier post....jumping pins 3 and 4 on the plasma made the plasma fire....as it should. It sounds / looks like there is a failed output on the cnc interface box that is not sending the start signal to the plasma.

Looks like Tuesday call to tech support is in order.
You may see if Jim Colt can give you an answer if he is not off on holiday but since he had not already posted for this problem I would say he is.

[WinterFabrication]

Thanks guys for your help.

I contacted CJ at BurnTables, and even though I did not purchase this table directly from them, they agreed to let me ship the control box to them so they can troubleshoot, fix, and test (even though I feel like we did all the troubleshooting). Of course this comes at a labor + parts cost, but I am just ready to get this working. Too much of an investment just to be sitting there idle.

[davek0974]

image.jpg

Well (hopefully) I think I may have found the problem.

Thanks in advance!

The box was wired like that!?

That has to be the most untidy, dangerous mess I have ever seen on any so-called professionally fitted cabinet. I am shocked really, it only reinforces what I have been reading about burntables.

I would get them to tidy it up too!

A six year old could do a better job.

[WinterFabrication]

I agree. There is no excuse as to why it is wired like that. I sent it back last week, they received it on Friday, and I haven't heard from them since.

We'll see how long this takes.

[WinterFabrication]

I shipped the control box to them.

So far.....

9-5-2014 - I received a simple "we got it" email from BurnTables
9-10-2014 - I emailed them asking about status.
They replied with "we are waiting on parts the plc went out"

As of today, 9-16-2014, I haven't heard anything else.

UPDATE.....

9-16-2014 - Got a call from CJ. Box repaired. Shipping back.

Hopefully everything will be good to go!!

[tcaudle]

Did they (BT) do the modification to the 45 to make it work with their THC controller? They cut the dividedand splice in a resistor to the raw electrode connection (high voltage and tie the other side straight to Workclamp and then to the rear CPC connector.. The damage you show is NOT from a simple component failure. That is a massive arc over and burned circuit in the controller even though you are not using the THC, the voltage is still there in the cable because they connect it up to the 14 pin CPC connector (bad). If you ever make the mistake of firing the torch with the WC not connected to a GROUNDED table or work, than you can get full plasma voltage in the THC input inside the controller.

The controller construction is below amateur grade. The AC connections in one of their boxes we saw was done with electrical tape for splices and loose at that.

Sadly you will probably have to pay for a new "THC" module (hats that thing stuck down in the corner with double sided tape because that is what fires the torch and all you can use is the relay. If the price is to0 high then i know where you can buy a complete "working" controller real cheap......

.

[davek0974]

Is there not a trading standards body? That box looks totally unsuitable really, I've done lash-ups, work-bench trials and tests etc and none of them have looked that bad. The thought of selling something like that shocks me ( no pun intended )

Was the toroidal transformer bolted down? I can see the mounting bolt for it but it's not on it.

A one resistor voltage divider? Ouch!

[WinterFabrication]

Was the toroidal transformer bolted down? I can see the mounting bolt for it but it's not on it.

Yes it was. I unbolted it to get to the circuit card easier.

Did they (BT) do the modification to the 45 to make it work with their THC controller?

I'm going to have to do more research on this, I can't really say whether the mod has been done or not.

If the price is to0 high then i know where you can buy a complete "working" controller real cheap......

Already paid and the "fixed" box is already heading back my way.



Thanks for the help!

[WinterFabrication]

UPDATE:

Received the box a couple weeks ago but wasn't able to hook it up until yesterday.

Bad news, plasma cutter still wont cut on when prompted by "M03" in the G Code.

I emailed CJ at BurnTables and he called a little while later and I walked him through the issue. Hopefully he will call back with a fix?

Is there something Im missing here?!?!

[davek0974]

Can you hear the relay clicking in the control box when you issue and M03 / M05 command?

[WinterFabrication]

I never did get a call back from them that afternoon or yesterday, still waiting on that.

I don't recall hearing a relay, but then again wasn't really paying a ton of attention for it. I was getting so frustrated. I will have to check this afternoon.

[davek0974]

Im not familiar with your setup so please take this with a pinch of salt...

There should be a connection from the controller to the plasma cutter, this might be a custom lead in my case or could be the stock CNC cable?

In that cable will be at least two wires, maybe more, but the minimum is two to trigger the torch - they just replicate pressing the trigger on a hand torch by closing a relay across them.

These wires will carry no voltage, its just a relay closing on them, if you can, find the two wires at the plug where it connects to the plasma, unplug it first. then connect a test meter across the two pins/wires and set it to continuity/resistance range. At rest there should be no reading - open circuit. Send an M03 command and the circuit should change to shorted or very low ohms - this indicates the relay has triggered and is trying to fire the torch.

If still no reading or audible click then the control box is faulty or the signal is not getting from the software to the controller.

Is this a custom job or the Mach3 style software?

Are there any aux relay outputs on the system, my one (CandCNC) has two aux relays and i can turn them on and off from the screen, if so, can you activate these??

The worrying thing is that with that controller box having such a badly made wiring layout (if you can call it that) that debugging is going to be damn hard.

[WinterFabrication]

Thank you for the great reply davek0974 , its a shame I don't get the kind of support from the company itself.

This is a BurnTables control box that runs their version of Mach3 software. I will try to put a Fluke meter on the pins that you are referring to and see if it shorts this afternoon.

If by auxiliary and turning on and off on the screen you mean manually cutting on the plasma through the software, then yes, I SHOULD be able to do that by clicking the option or the "F5" buttom, but of course nothing happens when I click it.

I will update once I test it later.

Thanks again.

[davek0974]

It's a pleasure, I hate bad service from suppliers.

Ok so it sounds like you have a custom screen set for a Mach based system.

On my system, also custom screen set/Mach based, I have a torch fire button plus an "aux1" and "aux2" buttons - these just operate relays and can be used for any purpose, I intend to use one to control my ventilation system.

Get the meter out and test the torch fire wires at the connector for the plasma unit, I have a feeling you are going to see no signal at all irrespective of sending an M03/M05 code.

The next step would be to find out if the signal is getting from mach to the control system, usually a breakout board or BOB, but could equally be a custom circuit board or boards. This is where it gets really hard without help from the makers I'm afraid.

It could be a simple setting error in mach, on the ports and pins page are all the mappings that tell mach how to talk to the BOB, one of these being messed up would stop the action, trouble is only the manufacturers would know for sure what settings should be set here, or another user with the same system.

Also verify that the plasma does actually fire, do you have a hand torch with trigger? If so give it a quick fire just to make sure. If machine torch then it can be done but you'll need to know which pins to short out on the CNC connector.

Good luck.

[WinterFabrication]

I have tested the plasma itself by jumpering the two wires at the back of the control box. Plasma itself works fine.

[davek0974]

I have tested the plasma itself by jumpering the two wires at the back of the control box. Plasma itself works fine.

Good, that's one component out of the issue.