plasma cam no longer offers technical support for thier program?

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beefy
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Re: plasma cam no longer offers technical support for thier program?

Post by beefy »

And have a look at this thread:
http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p156460

This guy can't even get a DVD for his old system. They'll have the old DVD files for sure but they won't even give him them. They said they'll give him a new DVD if he upgrades his software.

Maybe someone can make an ISO file from their DVD and give the guy a download link via Dropbox, Google Drive, etc.
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Re: plasma cam no longer offers technical support for thier program?

Post by tcaudle »

Dammed Capitalists!
I seldom defend PCAM but let's be fair about this. Few software vendors make their older software available for free. If you lose your CorelDraw CD you can't go to their website and get a free download of their old versions, not even for $$. Especially if it was something that had to be bought to begin with . At some point as new people join the vendors staff the knowledge to support an old release goes away. So the argument: "well, its obsolete just put it out there for free download" is less than reasonable. That then opens up another lane for trash when it gets downloaded and it does not work right. "well are you going to support me , it's YOUR software" Look at software vendors (and software licenses) from most of the major vendors in the world. PCAM got excoriated several years back because they would not even talk to you if your did not have a current support contract in effect. They changed that policy but they had to change other rules. You would be shocked to find out that you don't actually own most software. You pay a fee to use it. You are not allowed to sell or in most cases, even give it away! A lot of companies are now opening up "renting" you the software on a monthly or yearly basis. You stop paying, it stops working. Others let it continue to work but you can't update it , get support or download it again.

I won't even go to the dongle wars. As IT director in a Fortune 500 we had to try and track software licenses and dongles in 125 locations all over North America. Dongles got lost or walked off. Vendors were not impressed when we called and told them we can't find the CD or the HASP and would they just send us the unlocked software? We finally had to ban purchases of software that required a hardware hasp / dongle to run. Even then we had to rebuy a lot of software or face the wrath of the Software Police.

I understand there are a lot of hobby level or light users that either have or buy older used equipment. I word of warning: If you lose your CD or your Dongle (sounds painful) you may be SOL. The tacit lability of a software vendor that continues to either sell or give away older versions carries the distinct obligation to support it unless it's open source to begin with. When you marry into the PCAM family you accept the fact that their software and hardware is all proprietary and its a "for better or for worse" situation.
beefy
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Re: plasma cam no longer offers technical support for thier program?

Post by beefy »

Fair enough, they don't need to have a download link.

But however you look at it, it's no big deal for Plasmacam to burn a DVD and post it out to an old customer. They could make sure they profited from the small amount of work the staff had to do, and the blank DVD that cost a few cents. If the customer can verify he is a genuine customer, he's already bought the software. The few cents DVD is just the medium on which it's carried. And as far a verifying he's a customer, shouldn't they have a database where it only takes seconds to verify his unique customer number, or whatever is used.

I don't exactly call that "supporting" software. As already said I don't believe for a second they wont have the ISO file on disk, no matter how old the software is. If they claim they don't have it, that's for the sole purpose of forcing existing users to upgrade.

Doesn't matter what I say though, customers will form their own opinion of the business ethics of Plasmacam.
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Re: plasma cam no longer offers technical support for thier program?

Post by rdj357 »

Well said Tom. I had a big response started yesterday but just deleted it and moved on. I have personally had several instances where I had to upgrade to install on another/different computer. It is smart business to stop free support after a time, including sunsetting an older version. It's not like they're having version shifts on an annual basis like many pieces of licensed software.

I suggested previously that they should go back to a subscription based support. It's certainly not an uncommon business model. I've also recently criticized the way they rolled out the sunset on support. It should have been MUCH better communicated and far friendlier for their consumers. So in a nutshell, I understand and expect the change that was made but had I been running it I would have handled it much better.
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Re: plasma cam no longer offers technical support for thier program?

Post by tcaudle »

And as far a verifying he's a customer, shouldn't they have a database where it only takes seconds to verify his unique customer number, or whatever is used.
Well that assumes :
1. They keep all that data and it was originally or later registered to that user. PCAM did have (and may sitll) have a "transfer fee" of the software ot a new user of 500 bucks but that would have a time limit and probably not propagate tot he next major release.
2. That he is the original owner and bought it new or did a legal transfer under the terms of the software license
3. They are willing to provide and continue to support an obsolete system. Its kinda like you giving a minor a brew....even if its an old out of date brew. :o
I know this sounds simple but the act of a company offering to provide a user with obsolete software can create a legal obligation that is unintended. You are not covered by the so called "Good Samaritan Laws" .

While the cessation of support may not have been handled in the most "humane" way , providing free support forever is a formula for failure. When you have thousands of systems out its a different metric than when you have a few dozen or even a few hundred.

Any vendor that does not build in cost for support and warranty will find a point where something has to give. You can't go back and collect on a 3 year old table or control. Beware of "lifelong Warranty" its their life not yours! A warranty from a company that is no longer in business is worthless.

I know this sounds simple but the act of a company offering to provide a user with obsolete software can create a legal obligation that is unintended. You are not covered by the so called "Good Samaritan Laws". There are even countries where it is illegal to sell obsolete or unsupported software.

Okay, enough on this subject. I have to go answer questions on our Support Forum!
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Re: plasma cam no longer offers technical support for thier program?

Post by justjiuit »

Does anyone have the V3.11 software? My son installed the new disk that came in the mail and I lost my existing software?
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Re: plasma cam no longer offers technical support for thier program?

Post by Rory »

I'm a victim as well. I'm thoroughly disgusted with PlasmaCam. Completely unprofessional business practice, and disgusting the way I was treated when I called. I was basically given the middle finger when I told him I didn't have 6 grand laying around. Absolutely refused to speak to me unless a check for 6 grand was sitting on his desk from me.
Does anyone know of a company that I can purchase their software, and program to retro fit on my PlasmaCam. That way five years down the road they don't screw me again for another 6 grand, or more.
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Re: plasma cam no longer offers technical support for thier program?

Post by rdj357 »

If your choice was a 6 grand option then you must have a second hand DHC (I see where in a previous post that you bought it in 2017) so though it may be in good condition, it is quite old.

The value of your table is in its control and software. 3.11 software is outdated and as you know, no longer supported. As far as I know, you should have a $2k option to upgrade from 3.11 to 4.44 software without the hardware improvements but you have pretty much 3 options:

1. Spend the money to get the software to the current version (4.0+).
2. Sell the table (very little value for a non working 3.11 table) and buy a different brand.
3. Spend a bunch of time and money on new controls and motors and hope for the best.

A fourth option, assuming your controller is not blown is, there are several very willing and able people who have used these tables for years that might be willing to help you troubleshoot if you decide to come at it from that direction.
beefy
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Re: plasma cam no longer offers technical support for thier program?

Post by beefy »

So did you guys get fixed up with v3.11
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Re: plasma cam no longer offers technical support for thier program?

Post by Adamvale89 »

Dont do the upgrade. It doesnt cut any better. The software is still sub par compared to even sheetcam and me and steve went all out and got the $7000 hardware and software upgrade because we wanted to try to make it a decent plasma system but I have operated other systems that are 60-70% of the cost and they cut so much better and more accurate. They do not send you the upgrade until they recieve your old stuff so what that means is after you buy it the table will be unusable for about 3 weeks while you mail your and wait on the new stuff. Then once you get it you have to redrill 75% of the holes in the table that they could have already sent you to do. And to the guy who commented that they send you a manual with the upgrade.....no they dont we have been on the phone with them 3 times and they only send that with the table. The z axis motor they sent has not worked since we got it and they say it is not under warranty any more because that apparently starts when you order it. (90 days) is all they give you. Do yourself a favor and dont order a plasma cam. They have servos but they are on a flimsy piece of angle and a small rod that doesnt keep the other side In line as well as a 4th motor. You can get much better cut quality for less and more reliable
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Re: plasma cam no longer offers technical support for thier program?

Post by rdj357 »

As you might expect, my experience is quite different but thanks for sharing your experience and opinion. I have no complaints with the construction, durability, and reliability of the table and my cut quality is as good or better than most comparable machines.
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Re: plasma cam no longer offers technical support for thier program?

Post by see&see »

tcaudle wrote: When you marry into the PCAM family you accept the fact that their software and hardware is all proprietary and its a "for better or for worse" situation.
Wow, you hit the nail directly on the head.. Great analogy Tom.. With your permission, I'd like to make that part of my PlasmaCam signature.. And I promise I'll never tell anybody who wrote it or where I found it..

Pcam is a perfect example of marrying a trophy wife. The product was fantastic, looked good, easy to learn, felt good and ran like a dream. Of course men in this type of relationship feel justified spending money without question.

Next thing you know some unscrupulous individual attempts to pirate your wife.. You have finally found out the Cinderella fairy tale was mostly fiction..

You now come to the realization that she owns you along with your personal computer. She sneaks around behind your back and secretly installs a clandestine 4.45 update. She now demands you will throw out everything in your system she feels is not to her liking. And if you do not the marriage is over and the product refuses to "load".. You get nothing, you have nothing, you are SOL...
You marry into the PlasmaCam family and must accept the fact your software and hardware are proprietary. It's a for better or for worse engagement with overwhelming security. PlasmaCam controls the computer, table, hardware to their advantage IMO. :x
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Re: plasma cam no longer offers technical support for thier program?

Post by Jeff M »

I would like to cut my PLASMA CAM into about a thousand pieces and mail it to them and tell them to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine. I’ve had mine for about 10 yrs. My Z axis is not working right. Sorry about your luck. Their favorite line now is “refer to your video manual.” Tried to get some questions answered. Refer to your video manual. You all know as well as I do what they can do with their video manual. I have to look at a new machine now. It DEFINITLEY WON’T BE A PLASMA CAM. Anyone got any GOOD suggestions on Brand. I gotta bout a $10,000 PIECE OF JUNK I NEED TO GET RID OF.
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