machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

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csmhvac
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machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by csmhvac »

Hi there
I'm new here hopefully I'm posting this correct.
As heading says - when cutting nested parts the machine will lose its place and cut thru parts or run itself off the sheet even though the cut path on computer screen show everything is just fine. The machine is a koike cantilever style with hybrid cnc control, shop data systems hvac software/nesting, thermal dynamics plasma.
J
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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by acourtjester »

are you running the table fast you may be loosing steps this make it so the coordinates are off. Maybe you have loose components in the drive assemblies and things are slipping again wrong coordinates when it move.
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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by Batcat »

With most hybrid controllers if you add a kerf it can't deal with they will do things like cut across your part. Try putting zero in for a kerf. You may have to scale your part up to a bigger size as not to lose some detail.
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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by dustywill »

My guess would be high acceleration settings along with high speeds. IF the motor can't actually make the accelration then it will lose steps and forget where it is. Also if you are cutting unattended you may be hitting tip ups and losing steps. It happened to me just a couple of days ago.

When you say cutting across parts do you mean it is cutting the next part through another part or it is cutting while trying to move to another part.

What machine, software and versions are you running? More detail helps us diagnose.
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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by csmhvac »

Hello
I set the kerf to zero, cleaned all rails, slowed the machine down, and moved the computer away from plasma machine.
I cut 1 fitting that constists of four parts and all seemed well but the real test will be when I nest a full sheet of fittings.
I always have to be present when cutting because I am manually toggling the torch up and down when the metal distorts. ( typically 24 guage galvinized)
The machine is an older koike IK1500 ( cantilever style) with a creonics cnc control and thermal dynamics plasma, the only software is shop data systems that uses winlink to send files from computer to controller.
My next mission is THC, which im cautiously optimistic about because I have a roughly 12x12x12 black box that actually says "torch height control" on it as well as smaller box at control that has a switch for auto or manual control of torch height ( im using manual toggle because auto doesn't seem to do anything ) but im looking to fix that.
Really appreciate the feedback already given - very helpful!
J
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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by jimcolt »

Why don't you contact Koike? They can help you with the issues....and help identify the height control (probably an Innerlogic THC). You are not "losing steps" as your machine used servo drives with encoder feedback....not stepper drives. Shop Data Systems also has excellent tech support and can likely help.

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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by CNCCAJUN »

csmhvac wrote:Hi there
I'm new here hopefully I'm posting this correct.
As heading says - when cutting nested parts the machine will lose its place and cut thru parts or run itself off the sheet even though the cut path on computer screen show everything is just fine. The machine is a koike cantilever style with hybrid cnc control, shop data systems hvac software/nesting, thermal dynamics plasma.
J
I have run into this 3 times now . . . all three times I copied and pasted back into a fresh drawing in Autocad.
Then I ran it back through SIGMANEST and created a new post.
All 3 times the AutoCAD drawings were same number of bytes within 10 or so when compared.
I don't know how to write or read G-Code, but I do know that the same drawing with same parameters selected yielded a difference in over 100+ lines of code.
Something as simple as a "fillet" command in cad is capable of generating those vector points in several different ways depending of the settings in your cad program.
In turn these are interpreted differently by your G-Code processor just like the havoc caused when printing on a pin plotter.
Working in AutoCAD for 25+ years I have learned to expect glitches.
This is why I so many are wanting to move to SVG files. . . consistency & accuracy.

A typical culprit in the plotting days were residual leader lines that were ONCE there from dimensioning.
They are generated in cad through script, not user interface and do not respond to 1 level erases all the time.
Try generating the file in a different cad program, rename it & re-post it.

Remember "GIGO" Garbage In Garbage Out

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csmhvac
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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by csmhvac »

yes Koike might be the next step, shop data says if the toolpath shows up good on the computer screen that their job is done and that if actual cut deviates from route, that it must be the machine doing it.
it just got me again on a simple fitting 1st piece cuts perfect then piece 2 starts cuuting and cuts 1inch right thru the first piece.
so if its not cutting thru partrs its trying to run of the sheet , the misfires are always within an inch or so of the intended path.
I had another theory that it was happening when compressor kicks in but that turned out to be incorrect.
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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by csmhvac »

I just taped a marker to torch head and ran it thru tests without the plasma and it behaved perfectly on all fronts! Wondering if that sheds any light with anyone?
J
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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by CNCCAJUN »

Noise from torch . . . Check table grounding . . .?

Mine was AutoCAD 3X . . . . go figure . . .

If compressor might be culprit . . move power for the table to different side of power panel or power from another source.

Next door neighbor maybe.

I had problems with my compressor, although it was just shutting me down . . . . error error error . . .

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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by csmhvac »

I'll move the power to other side of panel ( my neighbour hates my compressor so I don't think he'd be ok with footing the bill to run it)
I sort of elimated that as a culprit by turning breaker off once I was full of air so that it didn't kick on while cutting and I still had the issue however the table ground is an interesting one ill need to look at as my plasma unit is grounded to the table but my table is not grounded at all. My first with that is " would it be possible for machine to run fine 60 percent of the time if this were the case?"
The fact that it was good on test gives me faith that I am in fact chasing a solution that exists...I'll be back at tomorrow !

J
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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by CNCCAJUN »

The table needs to be grounded to it's own ground rod & nothing else on it . . . Just table frame to earth . . .

Move the power for the table itself . . . You only need 120VAC, very little load . . .unless you have a huge table that is . .

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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by jimcolt »

You say you have a T-D plasma....what model? If it is a high frequency start then it could well be electrical noise. The noise comes from the high frequency circuit in the plasma system, and is delivered to the torch through the torch leads. First step (if it is a high freq. start) is to re-route the torch leads to ensure they are not near any computer or drive related cables.

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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by csmhvac »

The machines casing says "kN Aronson AP 55" but all literature for machine is TD. The torch leads and control cables from short haul modem made by " black box" are zap strapped together with the 120 v cable, how close is too close in your opinion ? 8-10 inches away sound acceptable?
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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by jimcolt »

the Koike AP55 is a private labeled Thermal Dynamics PAK5xr, which is high frequency start.

-You should have an earth ground rod driven as close to the cutting table as possible....and connected to the slatbed. The plasma work ground should also connect directly to the ground rod.

-The torch leads can be thought of as the antenna that sends the RF noise from the high frequency start circuit through the air. The modem and its power cable should be separated as far as you can. As a test....pull the torch leads free and hang them above the machine...maybe from the ceiling....to see if the issue goes away. Make sure if the leads are extra long that the excess is not coiled anywhere near any other cables.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

csmhvac wrote:The machines casing says "kN Aronson AP 55" but all literature for machine is TD. The torch leads and control cables from short haul modem made by " black box" are zap strapped together with the 120 v cable, how close is too close in your opinion ? 8-10 inches away sound acceptable?
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Re: machine loses its location and cuts thru parts

Post by csmhvac »

It looks as though it was the torch lead being bundled together with a controller cable since I was still having some trouble after grounding to ground rods but separating torch lead from everything and I've got two full sheets cut out with around 12 parts on each and machine cut where it was told. Thank you so much for you expertise!
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