DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

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tdalechick
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DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by tdalechick »

I am in the process of buying a plasma cutter and trying to decide between Burn Tables or Plasma Cam.....Anyone have any recommendations? Please let me know.
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES

Post by GoingCustom »

I own a plasmacam and odds are when I upgrade to a bigger table I will not be going with them. Have had really horrible customer service with them as well as some problems with the table that other tables don't have. Primarily the crappy customer service will keep me from buying any of their products again. Not familiar with Burn Tables though.
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES

Post by SomethingMetal »

I have a plasmacam DHC2 and I have had great customer service from them. I have called a few times reguarding software upgrades and 95% of the time when I call I speak directly with someone. I am not saying it is the best table or that customer service is great to everyone just relaying my experience so far. If I upgraded I'm not sure what table I would go with but the 5x10 Sampson would definitely be in the running.
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES

Post by jimcolt »

Both PlasmaCam and BurnTables are good quality machines. PlasmaCam probably has close to 20,000 machine in the field...and have upgraded their software and table designs over the years. Their CAD/CAM software is very functionl, easy to learn and easy to use....I have a PlasmaCam DHC2. Customer service has been the best.

I read a lot about Burn Tables. I think you will find that they are a little more pricy, but appear to be built for heavy duty industrial use.....likely will last under high duty cycle cutting conditions. I am not sure whose software they use...or what types of drives / controller/ torch height controller is used as well.

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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES

Post by tdalechick »

Thanks for the Reviews!!!! Every little advice is helpful now days!!!
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES

Post by cutterguy »

Here's my opinion...Plasmacams are built for light gauge steel. Good machines but to light for heavy steady cutting. It all depends on what you want out of it. Plasmacam recommends that you have a second machine on hand if you want to do steady cutting. These machines have very good smooth motion control. Do not try to draw with the Plasmacam software. Very good CAM software, just not CAD software. ( Possible something was wrong with my software ) I upgraded to a 5x10 Dynatorch and am very happy with it. However it's a total differant purchase price.
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES

Post by jimcolt »

Its kind of funny...each has their own impression. I prefer to use the PlasmaCam drawing software (Design Edge) over other...much more expensive CAD drawing packages. It is the easiest to learn...and to me the most intuitive drawing software I have used. Most of the cutting I do on my PlasmaCam is in the 1/8" to 1/2" range....and I have done a fair amount of 3/4" and 1" with excellent results. The PlasmaCam height control (their systems must be ordered with the Advanced height control function activated) is pretty much flawless when used with a plasma torch with ohmic contact function for sensing the surface of the plate before every cut....this system auto calibrates the height/arc voltage relation ship before every cut cycle....the operator does not have to compensate for speed changes, worn consumables...or when choosing different plate thickness....does not even have to set a voltage...just a physical height.

Whatever system you choose...and there are many good brands and choices....a good height control system and a machine torch mounted with a magnetic breakaway device are the keys to best cut quality, good consumable life as well as good productivity with these machines.


Jim Colt

cutterguy wrote:Here's my opinion...Plasmacams are built for light gauge steel. Good machines but to light for heavy steady cutting. It all depends on what you want out of it. Plasmacam recommends that you have a second machine on hand if you want to do steady cutting. These machines have very good smooth motion control. Do not try to draw with the Plasmacam software. Very good CAM software, just not CAD software. ( Possible something was wrong with my software ) I upgraded to a 5x10 Dynatorch and am very happy with it. However it's a total differant purchase price.
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES

Post by jmsrbrt »

I'll throw in my two cents, even though it wasn't one of the two mentioned by the original poster...TORCHMATE. I have one, can't complain, and they have excellent (free) customer service. Not familiar with the other brands, so take this advice for what it's worth. I'm biased. ;)
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES

Post by Mountain Home »

I have a Samson by Plasma Cam and I like it. I have no complaints about the table or the company.That being said if you go with Plasma Cam, ask them what is and is not included with their software. If they would have been selling the same way a couple of years ago that they do now, not knowing one function from another I would have bought the basic package and would be way disappointed. It takes several thousand dollars in upgrades to get the new software to do what the old software will.
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by agmechman73 »

What CAD/CAM Software do the Burn Tables use and will it allow "DXF Imports"

I Use Solidworks- 2D to 3D, Extruding the part shows what stays and falls then save it as a dxf, and then on to the PlasmaCAM. I live in Texas about 6 hours from Houston and Austin/Hutto I like the fact that I can personally see, greet, meet and discuss problems with a machine I think local vendor would be my deciding factor who is the closest
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by Gamelord »

I love my Torchmate. Have had nothing but awesome instant customer service when I needed it and the machine has worked flawlessly. It is ultra heavy duty and will out last me. :) When I purchased my table, I wanted to make sure that I would never have to worry about purchasing another later one - so far so good. I am very happy with it. Buy it once and never worry again.
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by I Lean »

I'm 94% sure the Burntables use Mach3 and Sheetcam. Both easy to use, and as common as they are there is plenty of help available from users all over if you get stuck. (I use the same combo on my homebuilt table)
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by Dan Radusinovich »

I have a PlasmaCam DHC2 with Design Edge Advance and have had great luck, support has been very good to me.
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by ssyork »

I too am looking at a Burntable, so I messaged them about software and here was his response.
"Software is ProgCad, sheetcam, and control software, everything you would every need for a plasma table.

Let me know if you have questions."

Did you decide on one yet?
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by trucutcnc »

We don't care for PlasmaCam's proprietary business model. I know in the past, they have always charged for support beyond the first year. That's typical with proprietary systems because they know no one else can support the product.

Most machines in the sub 20K price range use Mach3, which is widely supported worldwide with a huge user base. It is also customizable with pretty much no limitations. Most also use SheetCAM because of it's ease of use and efficient workflow, especially when used for plasma work. Short of spending 8K+ on something like Striker or SigmaNest, SheetCAM is the best thing going for plasma work.

For drawing, you have many options. We use, sell and support Rhino3D as well as a few others. Rhino offers an easy to learn Windows style user interface and unlike AutoCAD, the commercial version is $895 with no recurring annual fees. If you have a student ID, the educational version of Rhino is only $195. Their support is also top notch.

I'd recommend that you not go cheap on the drawing software. A cheap CAD program with limited or no support will render your table just about useless. Sooner or later, you'll want to cut more than what comes on the CD with the machine. When that day comes, you'll need a good drawing program.
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by SignTorch Vector Art »

trucutcnc wrote:We don't care for PlasmaCam's proprietary business model. ...
use Mach3, ... also use SheetCAM... For drawing, you have many options...I'd recommend that you not go cheap on the drawing ...
retrofitted plasmacam on mach3
Last edited by SignTorch Vector Art on Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by plasmapros »

For the record Mach 3 provides smooth motion and is very flexible in that it can be configured for a variety of uses. I see a direct relationship between all the new start up plasma manufacturers and the use of Mach 3 and it is frustrating to hear them beat up others like PlasmaCam who have been around since the dawn of economical plasma tables. PlasmaCam and others have invested huge amounts of time and money into developing software specifically for the plasma cutting process in an effort to deliver a user interface that is easy to learn and understand for ANYONE. This is something Mach 3 cannot boast. In addition to that these manufactures that have made the investment have been able to simplify the process to eliminate 3rd party CAM software and eliminate the need for G and M code and the problems that are associated with it, especially for new users who are not familiar with cnc machines. In my opinion if you plan to buy a plasma table that runs on Mach 3 you may as well buy Mach 3 yourself for under $200 and build your own table like many others Plasmaspider members have done. You will be posed with the same issues as if you had purchased it from some of these other builders with the difference being you have saved a lot of money and have the knowledge to fix it yourself if need be. PlasmaCam and others running proprietary software should not be frowned upon, they have made a huge investment for the consumer and you will see that these companies who have done this have been around for MANY years. Anyone can weld up a table, run it on $200 Mach 3 software, upload it to an instant Godaddy website and claim they are the greatest. Time will tell and it already has for many. Torchmate, Tracker, PlasmaCam...these guys were the founders of economical plasma tables. Thats my rant for the day. Enjoy the holidays everyone :D
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by tacoma747 »

I own a Burntable, I would not buy another... I have had MANY issues, some minor, some major. If you don't mind your table being out square, and the torch head pulled down with a bungee cord, buy one :roll: I won't go into further detail right now about all the other issues I've had, the one's below should be enough...

(burntables did not do anything to resolve any of these issues)

That is about 1" height difference. Wonder if that's what the ATHC was for :lol:
Image

The height of the grating slots was not the correct depth on about 7 of the slots, I cut them to the correct height with a grinder/cutoff wheel.
Image

Even that high quality bungee cord would not pull the torch head down because the V-Blocks were in so much of a bind from the mounting plate being welded on crooked (hard to see)
Image
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by plasmapros »

Thanks for the pics Tacoma 747, I found them fairly amusing. Bungee cord :lol: I hope it's fire retardant :lol:

I have a simple solution for anyone torn between a machine on Mach3 or a machine running proprietary software:

Buy your system from a manufacturer that has been around for over 10 years that way you know they are likely here to stay. If it has proprietary software don't worry about it yet, chances are you will learn to love it and get your jobs done in less time. IF you don't like the proprietary software and find yourself wishing you had gone the other route...pull out your wallet and drop $179 on Mach 3 and run that instead. Problem solved, you can have the best of both worlds. If you buy a machine running Mach3 and you don't like it...your pretty much screwed and stuck with it. Mach 3 can be set up to run your dishwasher if you want it to, it will have no trouble running your machine.

This to me is a no brainer and should simplify the decision making process for those in limbo.
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by BurnTables »

Mr Bowen (tacoma747) leaves a lot to be desired with his post, especially when his motive is extortion for money.

Let me explain, we gave Mr Bowen a discount on a table in exchange for our sponsorship for his offroad races. He failed to race and is trying to use a "friend" to extort more money from us for his "friends" wins. We have been in contact with the "friend" and have made arrangements to pay for his sponsorship even though the sponsorship wasn't between the "friend" and us directly. Mr Bowen still thinks money is still owed to him, in reality he owes us money from the original discount.

Mr Bowen failed to hold up his side of the bargain but yet wants us to pay him, he has threaten and acted in posting false "problems" that only came apparent to our attention when we found out that he wasn't racing. He has had problems that we took care of, even though they were due to installation problems (the table is under and open carport on a gravel floor, etc), thinking we are building a relationship with a racer, but that turned out to be a lie.

Even with all of these issues with Mr Bowen, we still support our product with him with in reason.

If you have any questions about our tables, please let us know and we would be happy to help.

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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by tacoma747 »

Burntables was notified of all these problems in March (by PM on a message board of which I have copies of), they did nothing to fix the above problems, as well as some other problems. They DID replace multiple control boxes that either failed to work right out of the shipping box, or that were fried while being used, (I was using their grounding procedures). The control box I have now is supposedly 'upgraded' boards, I have not had an issue with it so far.

At the beginning of the season, I asked (online in PM's) if running stickers on other vehicles for the sponsorship discount would be OK, Burntables said that would be OK. Even though Brad was running stickers, both Brad and I had talked and both assumed that Burntables would come up with some excuse not to pay at the end of the season (although I didn't expect THIS excuse). They never specified that I HAD to race (that is NOWHERE in any of the PM's I have), only that stickers must be run on a team vehicle.

I have no expectations of getting any of the sponsorship money from Burntables that Brad earned (some would be his), and like I told Burntables (because I knew they would try and say these claims are 'false'), pictures don't lie. They threatened with accusing me of blackmail, but like I told them, there is no way this is blackmail-my reasons below:

1: I bought a product that I am not pleased with, I took pictures of the issues, those issues were in no way resolved by Burntables (the ONLY issues they resolved were control box issues)
2: I did not post those pictures or complaints online, even though I was highly displeased, because I THOUGHT I still had a chance of receiving a discount, I did not feel it was right to publically bash a 'sponsor'.

3: There is nothing 'blackmail' about posting pictures of faulty products online, if it arrived to me in the condition pictured that is nothing more than poor quality.

4: If he paid Brad I do not know, I sure hope he does because I promised Brad some $$ out of the refund. I think they just don't want to own up to the fact the table they sent me is a piece of crap.

Burntables: I will be glad to post up all the PM's showing where I told you about the problems, and all your excuses were nothing but that, excuses. There was a claim the table was 'tested' before I picked it up. I would like to know how it would have been tested with the grating being 1" higher in the center than on the ends, and with a torch that would not even move in the slider blocks....
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by pemery »

I am also in the market for a table under $20,000.00. I currently own a Plasma Cam DHC2. Not only is their customer support awesome i also got three years free support. I actually when to their shop to inspect their product before i bought. I do agree that if you don't ask questions they don't try to sell you any bells and whistles. In fact i took a check to them and was dissapointed to learn about the Samson table. i would have bought it. I had never welded or plasma cut before i got my table and they held my hand and step by step helped me. I would go with them and still think that i might. I like the engraver on the ldr table i researched but i think it is a samson for me. I had no other cad program just an adobe master collection and i do lots of custom work. my two pennies.
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by abmetal »

Pemery,

As I've mentioned in other posts, my wife and I had a Plasmacam DHC for several years, bought a Torchmate but it just didn't work for her so we then bought the Samson. We found out about the Samson shortly after we bought the Torchmate, otherwise we'd have bought it instead. Anyhow we're really pleased with the Samson.

Allen
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by tacoma747 »

Look into a Bulltear.com setup. For probably $2K more than Burntables sells their 4x4 for, you can build a 4x8 Bulltear and have MUCH higher quality parts. I am in the process of putting together my Bulltear table I just got, the quality difference is not even comparable between the two.
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Re: DECIDING BETWEEN TABLES-Burn Table or Plasma Cam

Post by Dan-PlasmaCAM »

trucutcnc wrote:We don't care for PlasmaCam's proprietary business model. I know in the past, they have always charged for support beyond the first year. That's typical with proprietary systems because they know no one else can support the product.

Most machines in the sub 20K price range use Mach3, which is widely supported worldwide with a huge user base. It is also customizable with pretty much no limitations. Most also use SheetCAM because of it's ease of use and efficient workflow, especially when used for plasma work. Short of spending 8K+ on something like Striker or SigmaNest, SheetCAM is the best thing going for plasma work.

For drawing, you have many options. We use, sell and support Rhino3D as well as a few others. Rhino offers an easy to learn Windows style user interface and unlike AutoCAD, the commercial version is $895 with no recurring annual fees. If you have a student ID, the educational version of Rhino is only $195. Their support is also top notch.

I'd recommend that you not go cheap on the drawing software. A cheap CAD program with limited or no support will render your table just about useless. Sooner or later, you'll want to cut more than what comes on the CD with the machine. When that day comes, you'll need a good drawing program.
PlasmaCAM does not Charge for tech support. We still support machines we made in 1998 with both Technical Support and Parts.

We do not use MACH 3 for several Reasons. First and foremost is that it was not available when PlasmaCAM originated. So we made our own. By creating our own integrated CAD/CAM solution we made our machine easier to use and more accurate.

(FYI most machines do not use Mach3- It is the software of choice for start ups however over time they usually go to something else.)

The PlasmaCAM DesignEdge drawing software is the only Drawing Program made specifically for CNC Plasma Cutting.
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