CAN YOU PATINA PICKLED & OILED PLATE

[rustyhook]

I tried to rust f/x a sign cut from pickled & oiled plate 11 ga carbon steel. It won't take.

I FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS per the product, let set for 24 hours.

when I go to rinse with water to neturalize all the rust wash's away and I get shinny metal again.
I cut a 2nd sign to re-try. Again , carefully followed product instructions and same result.
I bought a gallon of this stuff very recently from steel f/x so I don't think it can be old.

Any suggestions?

RH

[abmagrum]

did you try a acid bath ?

[rustyhook]

no acid bath.

my thinking is that the advantage of pickled plate is I don't have mill scale to remove and hence no reason for an acid bath.
I scored the plate completely with 36 grit sandpaper on a angle grinder so it was clean, oil free and ready for application.

[abmetal]

I use P&O exclusively. I wipe it off with thinner, then use a flap wheel on it. You HAVE to use sandpaper, flap wheel, etc. I, personally, always use a flap wheel. Then after the patinas/dyes and clearcoat, it turns out neatrn' socks on a rooster!. Yeah I'm a bumpkin.

Allen

[rustyhook]

thanks for replies.

ABMETAL say's "You HAVE to use sandpaper".
I assumed the 36 grit on grinder satisfies that requirement, maybe not. I'm gonna go sand it again with
36 grit on a grinder then use a 60 grit flapper wheel on a grinder and reapply rust f/x and let set overnite. I'll
take pictures this time.

rh

[steelfx]

thanks for replies.

ABMETAL say's "You HAVE to use sandpaper".
I assumed the 36 grit on grinder satisfies that requirement, maybe not. I'm gonna go sand it again with
36 grit on a grinder then use a 60 grit flapper wheel on a grinder and reapply rust f/x and let set overnite. I'll
take pictures this time.

rh

STEEL F/X? Patinas will work on any carbon steel, including Pickled & Oiled.
But, you have to remove the oil film BEFORE grinding, sanding or flap-dsicing, otherwise you're just pushing the oil around and into the steel.

Since the patinas, including RUST F/X? are water-based, they don't play well with oil, in any form or amount.

Even a thumbprint will leave enough oil to repel any patina solution.

If you skip steps, you'll have issues. If you add steps, you'll have issues.

thanks! And, btw...Merry Christmas!! To Everyone!!

Bill

[abmetal]

You don't have to let it sit overnight. I wipe my steel down with lacquer thinner, sometime Zylol, plasma cut,run the flap wheel over it to remove the dross, wipe it down again, then go over it with a clean flap wheel that I use only for the clean steel. I then color it with the patinas or dyes, rinse and DRY (like Bill says) and clearcoat. I usually do it all in a short period. I'm kinda' paranoid when it comes to letting a piece sit around uncoated. With my luck, something will get on it every time. I may be doing it wrong but it's working for me.

Allen

[abmagrum]

Just a dumb/curios question.
what is the purpose of doing all that work ?
if you could just drop it in acid and rinse.

do you get a different finish?
is it because you don't want to mess with chemicals?
I am new and just trying to learn as much as I can.

thanks

[abmetal]

Well, my thoughts are, and maybe Bill will clarify this, I want to get down to the "virgin" metal, the same as when you prepare the metal before you prime a car. The way that I do it actually doesn't take long at all. I always wipe down my steel before I cut anyway. Then the rest of what I do after I cut takes a very short time. It's really simple...otherwise I wouldn't be doing it!

Allen

[rustyhook]

Thanks all for the help.

Bill's advise of "removing oil film before grinding" is the only thing I'm not doing.
Removing the film was not explained entirely thou.....I guess wet a rag in lacquer thinner
and wipe generously by hand. I don't know.

abmagrum : Acid dipping has been discussed on this board plenty. Not sure it is for me. I'm in a subdivision
and working in garage. I don't want acid fumes rusting everything I have. A container in backyard is not good, I have
dogs and children running around. Sure I could do this or that to secure everything, I'd rather just not.

abmetal : rust f/x patina instructions say let set "up to 12 hours" or more depending on desired effect. It is not like
copper patina or others where effects are immediate and complete.

RH

[steelfx]

flex burnisher.jpg

Hi Rusty,

You wrote: "Bill's advise of "removing oil film before grinding" is the only thing I'm not doing.
Removing the film was not explained entirely thou.....I guess wet a rag in lacquer thinner
and wipe generously by hand. I don't know."

For years, I used lacquer thinner, brake-cleaner (mostly acetone) or pure Acetone to get rid of any oily residue on new steel, especially P&O...but all solvents seem to leave a trace of oil. I now use a formula that is a base (alkaline) that contains no detergents, caustic acids or petroleum distillates. I don't like my posts to sound like an advertisement for a certain product, but it's called GRIME GIT'R, and it's my formula...available on my site. Cheaper than acetone, too.

http://steelfxpatinas.com/shop/supplies ... greaser-2/

I spray a mist of GRIME GIT'R on the steel, wipe it down well with a clean, disposable shop rag and it's 100% ready for flap-discing at that point. You can water-rinse & dry if you want, just to make sure there's no chem left on the steel, but I've found that it's not necessary prior to flap-discing or burnishing.

When using RUST F/X, no further metal prep is necessary, as long as the steel is clean. You will however, get a little different look if the steel surface is profiled with some form of abrasive...my favorite there is the flap-disc on a 4-1/2" angle grinder.

I also use a FLEX drum sander, which is my "go-to" tool for large pieces. It has an inflatable rubber drum that holds an abrasive roll and it kicks butt! You can also give steel the look of 'brushed stainless' with it, or put on a non-woven polishing disc. It's very versatile, 5 speeds and a real workhorse. I've had mine for about 3 years w/ zero problems.

In cool weather, overnight with the RUST F/X is advisable. It also helps to spray a second mist of it after the 1st coating is dry. Do not neutralize until you've got the color range that you want. A 3rd or 4th misting of water only will re-activate the salts to keep the rusting process active. Just don't mist to the point of "run-off".

In the summer, 30 minutes to an hr. is all you need for the RUST F/X to work well. (Heat is one component of rusting, the other two being oxygen & moisture). We speed up that process by using chemistry, which is the RUST F/X & AUBURN F/X. (RUST F/X is a brownish rust, whereas AUBURN F/X is more of a red-brown rust).

thanks,

Bill

[rustyhook]

thanks again for all the advise from everybody.

Bill, you summed it up very well. I'm using your product so I don't take your reply as an advertisement. I take
it as you thoroughly answered my question. THANKS.

I've used rust f/x in the past but on hot-rolled steel and had great results. Looks awesome. I bought a few sheets
of P&O plate and did my same procedure but terrible results. I now know my mistake. Thank-You Sir.

RustyHook

[steelfx]

thanks again for all the advise from everybody.

Bill, you summed it up very well. I'm using your product so I don't take your reply as an advertisement. I take
it as you thoroughly answered my question. THANKS.

I've used rust f/x in the past but on hot-rolled steel and had great results. Looks awesome. I bought a few sheets
of P&O plate and did my same procedure but terrible results. I now know my mistake. Thank-You Sir.

RustyHook

You are very welcome!

Bill

[abmetal]

DUMB OLE' ME!
I apologize. I had the copper, torch, etc. patinas on the brain since that's what I normally use. And when I have used rust, I did let it set overnight. Heck, I let one piece lay for two weeks just to see how it'd look. But I still prepare the steel the same way as when I use the other patinas. Sorry.

MERRY CHRISTMAS,
Allen

[steelfx]

No worries, Allen! Sometimes, I'll leave my bare steel in the acid bath (muriatic acid/water 1:1) for a couple of weeks...to give a pitted, textured look to the steel. I really like the look of pitted steel, and my other method for pitting steel gets the neighbors and cops upset. (12G Shotgun w/ steel shot) it is kinda noisy.

note: please do not try the aforementioned pitting at home. i am a trained professional.