What Table Do you Suggest?

motoguy · Post by **motoguy** » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:57 pm

VSAWMike wrote:I have a question to ad to this. Nobody is really speaking of what is being cut. I would think that makes a huge difference in what machine to invest lots of money in. I have absolutely no interest in cutting art from sheet metal. I am far more interested in cutting parts from steel that is from 1/8" to 1/2" thick. What machine will do that job the most reliably and with the nicest smoothest cuts? That's my question to add.

I would most likely be cutting 1/4" most of the time but sometimes I may need to cut some 3/8" or 1/2" and I would like the edges to be semi smooth. Or at least good enough that they can be easily cleaned up.

I absolutely love my Bulltear table. I'd consider another (if needed) in a heartbeat. Take a look at a true "industrial" machine, such as a Hornet (formerly Retro Systems) table. Then take a look at the Bulltear offering. You'll see LOTS of similarities.

One thing I've learned, which seems counterintuitive...it takes a MORE capable table to cut thin sheet metal material, than it does thick stuff. Acceleration issues, rigidity issues, speed issues, repeatability...become MORE prevalent in thinner material. Something thick like 1/2" is actually easier to cut cleanly, due to the much slower speeds involved.

Assuming the frame of the machine is structurally stable to support such weight, that is.

VSAWMike · Post by **VSAWMike** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:54 am

Well, I have a small company I started in 2012 doing woodworking from my home shop. I added onto my garage, then added awnings then made a building. I use some metal tabs cut from 3/16" right now for making table legs in square tube, rectangle tube and also hairpin legs. some areas of this I want to expand. By the way we sell on Etsy. It started as a side thing and within 6 months I was able to quit my job. I didn't actually quit till I was a year in. I would be glad to help anyone that sells on Etsy and/or is just starting out. It's a wonderful place to sell hand made items.

But my background is in steel. I used to work at places building commercial trucks, armored vehicles. By that I mean armored Suburbans, Mercedes S550, Ford F550 and SWAT vehicles on class 7 and 8 chassis. We used a 5x12, actual size was 6 x16 or something like that. The water table was 5x12 and we always cut 4x8 sheets anyway. We also had a waterjet that was 5x12. We mostly cut AR500, AR508 and sometimes military grade armor. The shop was featured on the science channel in an episode about armored cars. Also in an episode of works: steel and also used in three episodes of SLICED. I actually build the spy car for that episode. I also used to build all kinds of custom suspension parts. Like 4 link brackets, tabs etc as well as control arms, watts links, 4 links, all kinds of cross members etc. I designed all the tabs and plates and cut them at the shop. Mostly from 1/4" but sometimes thicker.

So as the woodworking business is doing well with both my sons and one of their friends working for me I want to get back to my passion. That is making custom vehicle parts. Me and my kid have a large shop where we do our custom trucks. We are both building projects literally from the ground up. I just bought a Hobart 27i to use in the shop for cutting small pieces by hand. We are ready to take the next step. My thinking is that the woodworking thing as in the style of things we build may not be that popular for another decade so we need a backup plan. While the shp is making money I want to use that to get the backup plan in place.

Post by **BTA Plasma** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:41 am

Joe Jones wrote:
I own three of their tables and I am happy with my choice, but "PlasmaMac" WORKS for PLASMACAM!

Quit with the "you don't know me" B.S. Jasper, and just honestly tell people why YOU believe PlasmaCam is a superior table. Be HONEST, and they won't care about the FACT that you work for the company.

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Not very classy tearing down the competitor and promoting your brand under false pretense. You should be ashamed.

muzza · Post by **muzza** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:23 am

BTA Plasma wrote:
Joe Jones wrote:
I own three of their tables and I am happy with my choice, but "PlasmaMac" WORKS for PLASMACAM!

Quit with the "you don't know me" B.S. Jasper, and just honestly tell people why YOU believe PlasmaCam is a superior table. Be HONEST, and they won't care about the FACT that you work for the company.

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Not very classy tearing down the competitor and promoting your brand under false pretense. You should be ashamed.

I think most people were very aware of Jaspers employ, working as he was taught to bullshit his customers.

Hold your head high Matt, I don't even own one of your tables but you have still helped and taught me numerous times. If I was in the market to buy a commercially made table you would be my first call just based on the posts you make here and your reviews from others. Based on the experience of previous dealings with another manufacturer I also know who I won't buy from.
Murray

VSAWMike · Post by **VSAWMike** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:04 am

So about what does a Bulltear table cost in a 4x8 ready to run? I would assume it's compatible with a Hypertherm Powermax 45 or 65? That would cut anything I need to cut right?

motoguy · Post by **motoguy** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:15 am

VSAWMike wrote:So about what does a Bulltear table cost in a 4x8 ready to run? I would assume it's compatible with a Hypertherm Powermax 45 or 65? That would cut anything I need to cut right?

Not sure of the 4x8 cost, but Matt (BTA Plasma, owner of Bulltear/Starlab) can get that info to you. Yup, it's Hypertherm ready. I use a PM 85 on mine. I wanted the most versatility I could get, and the 85 is the largest single-phase HT unit I could get. I think my 85 is rated for 1.25" thick steel. No idea how I'd load it on the table, but if I could load it, I can cut it...

VSAWMike · Post by **VSAWMike** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:48 am

That's great. I am now thinking of the possibilities of cutting 3/4" thick and 1" thick. better to have more plasma capacity than needed.

motoguy · Post by **motoguy** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:02 pm

Yup. In addition, with the 85 you don't give up anything on the "low end". I use the finecut consumables to cut 16ga (thinnest I've cut). So far 1/2" is the thickest I've cut, but nice to know the machine isn't limiting me.

KIDTech · Post by **KIDTech** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:42 pm

I have an LDR and it has been a great machine, we do a lot of heavy cutting and I put a lot of confidence into the table holding up the weight. Not saying other tables won't do it just saying I trust mine will. I would recommend LDR to you as I am working toward acquiring their stand alone cnc tubing cutter as well. A major reason for going with him is the fact that my computer power supply died and I got another one shipped quick. Then the PWM was not reading on the DRO, new PWM in the mail no questions asked. I still have to send both my replaced units back, sorry Dan.... I would buy from Dan again no doubt.

VSAWMike · Post by **VSAWMike** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:03 pm

You have a link to the LDR?

What does an LDR 4x8 machine cost complete ready to cut?

KIDTech · Post by **KIDTech** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:11 am

http://ldrmotionsystems.com/

Post by **tnbndr** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:13 am

What does an LDR 4x8 machine cost complete ready to cut?

It would depend on what options you add. Give Dan a call he will tell you straight up.
I paid around $11K two years ago for a 4x8 without the plasma but with a machine torch built in so I just plugged in my PM45.

VSAWMike · Post by **VSAWMike** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:52 am

I have about two months to decide. I am leaning towards the Bulltear. I am also looking at these others. I will certainly keep looking and eliminate them one by one until I have the best option for what I will be doing. I appreciate any and all input you guys have. It looks like to me that we are lucky in that these days several machines have advanced to the point where they are reliable and easy to use. So picking through all that and the tech support and software also plays a major role.

Post by **Joe Jones** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:40 am

I am seriously considering purchasing one of the new JD Squared 5x10 plasma tables. It is nothing short of amazing, and the price is almost unbelievable!

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Post by **jimcolt** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:36 am

The Powermax85 has a factory rating of 3/4" (production cut and pierce) and is Hypertherm's most powerful single phase plasma. Edge starting (or starting on the edge of a drilled hole) can be done to at least 1-1/2". The 45 can pierce 1/2" and edge start on 1", the 65 pierces 5/8" and edge starts to 1-1/4". The The Starlab / Bulltear machines are plug and play with Powermax units that are equipped with a machine torch and the CPC port.....Starlab can also interface to the optional Powermax RS485 serial port for auto setting of air pressure and amperage....and to read diagnostic codes back at the operators screen. Matt at StarLab / Bulltear is a great guy....excellent product support! Jim Colt Hypertherm

motoguy wrote:
VSAWMike wrote:So about what does a Bulltear table cost in a 4x8 ready to run? I would assume it's compatible with a Hypertherm Powermax 45 or 65? That would cut anything I need to cut right?
Not sure of the 4x8 cost, but Matt (BTA Plasma, owner of Bulltear/Starlab) can get that info to you. Yup, it's Hypertherm ready. I use a PM 85 on mine. I wanted the most versatility I could get, and the 85 is the largest single-phase HT unit I could get. I think my 85 is rated for 1.25" thick steel. No idea how I'd load it on the table, but if I could load it, I can cut it...

Post by **jimcolt** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:43 am

The JD Squared sure look like well built machines. They were built based on their experiences over the years using cnc plasma tables to manufacture their excellent line of tube benders. A relatively new offering from JD Squared, but their years of experience and the feedback you hear from the users of the benders leads me to believe that the cnc machines will be a success. Jim Colt Hypertherm

Joe Jones wrote:I am seriously considering purchasing one of the new JD Squared 5x10 plasma tables. It is nothing short of amazing, and the price is almost unbelievable!

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prorock · Post by **prorock** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:50 am

We are a beta tester for the Lincoln Electric. We received the Torchmate 4800 months ago before the public release. I have been running an older version of the TM for many years. The 4800 was a complete redesign and I believe will be an industry leader. I have been involved in plasma and laser cutting for a couple decades. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help. My name is Dan DuBose. My shop name is Motobilt.

I would recommend choosing a company that will be there to answer the phone and provide tech support when needed. Tech support is key when getting a machine running. I have seen very few that did not need attention to get them dial in. This is even more so with a first time operator.

VSAWMike · Post by **VSAWMike** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:51 am

I would not think that JD2 has been making benders with a plasma table. I own a model 3 and the holes are too nice. They are also too nice for laser so the holes are either drilled by a machine or they are water jet cut. Same for the outer edges. They certainly may use plasma for other parts and pieces of benders or stands. But the body of a bender is not plasma cut.

VSAWMike · Post by **VSAWMike** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:56 am

I will make sure I get the largest machine HT makes for single phase 220. I guess that's the 85. I will want to cut very thick stuff sometimes if I am making a custom spindle for a truck. I can also drill the holes in thick material so the machine does not have to pierce the hole. I will have two months to decide. I am not financing it. I will buy it outright. No rush to get started. I have plenty of other things to do in the mean time to get the shop ready.

What air filtration systems come with these of any, or what do you suggest?

Post by **jimcolt** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:36 am

The Hypertherm Powermax units all have a built in filter/coalescing water trap with an auto drain. Good for many applications as it is. If you are doing production cutting and/ or are in a region with relatively high humidity, then you may need to look at other options to control moisture levels in your air. Often the same types of systems used for Automotive paint spray applications are adequate as flow rates and pressures are fairly similar.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

VSAWMike · Post by **VSAWMike** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:43 pm

Probably what I need to do is get a normal auto shop filter system for this to back in up before it goes into the machine. I live in Texas so it's not humid but it does rain.

Now on to comparing tables, equipment and the breakdown. suck as bearings, motors, actuators etc.

YouTube · Post by **JDSquaredInc** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:24 pm

VSAWMike wrote:I would not think that JD2 has been making benders with a plasma table. I own a model 3 and the holes are too nice. They are also too nice for laser so the holes are either drilled by a machine or they are water jet cut. Same for the outer edges. They certainly may use plasma for other parts and pieces of benders or stands. But the body of a bender is not plasma cut.

That is correct that we don't cut anything out with plasma. A big majority of parts (Including the benders) is cut on our laser. The die sets are to thick to cut out so we use oxy fuel to cut those. We do have a new series of plasma tables on the market which we will probably install in one of our facilities for production soon.

Ryan Miles
JD Squared, Inc.

VSAWMike · Post by **VSAWMike** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:52 pm

I love my model 3 bender. I have had it for about a decade.

gamble · Post by **gamble** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:58 pm

Joe Jones wrote:I am seriously considering purchasing one of the new JD Squared 5x10 plasma tables. It is nothing short of amazing, and the price is almost unbelievable!

.

At first glance I thought the JD was over priced but after looking at it more and more in detail and the specs, I think the JD 4x4 is going to be my next machine. Would like to see a video on their software from design to cut
Also curious why all their electronics needs 220v power though where everyone else can run off 110v easily

Post by **Joe Jones** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:26 pm

VSAWMike wrote:I have about two months to decide. I am leaning towards the Bulltear. I am also looking at these others. I will certainly keep looking and eliminate them one by one until I have the best option for what I will be doing. I appreciate any and all input you guys have. It looks like to me that we are lucky in that these days several machines have advanced to the point where they are reliable and easy to use. So picking through all that and the tech support and software also plays a major role.

FYI, I have two, brand spanking NEW HyperTherm PowerMAX 85 plasma cutters, still in the original boxes, NEVER opened. I bought one from AirGAS when I bought my first Samson 510 plasma table, but I did not have ventilation in the plasma room, so I mounted a router to the table and went to town!

The second Samson 510 table I purchased from a man in New York. He NEVER used the table, and also had a H/85 new in the box. I bought it from him with the table.

My third table, the PlasmaCam DHC2 ... also NEVER used came with a brand new HyperTherm PM 45 plasma torch. I have that one hooked up and use it for my 4x4 table.

Now HyperTherm is coming out with something New and Improved! on September 26th. I am already prepared to buy at least one of these new machines IF they prove to be that much more than these brand new machines I already have.

So if you want a great deal on a BRAND NEW HyperTherm PowerMAX 85, contact me. I may be shipping a couple of them out to lucky buyers in a few days!

Joe Jones
Franklin, KY., USA

joejonesinkentucky (at) yahoo (dot) com

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