First time copper user

[Zephrant]

Hello- I tried the copper and torch finishes yesterday, and had a few problems. The main one was fish-eye. I used a 120 grit flap disk on the metal, sprayed it with water, dried with an air hose, then spritzed on the copper. But in some cases, it would not stick to certain locations, leaving me with a spots that were not covered well.

The air compressor is a portable, oil-less, but I'm wondering if I was getting some kind of contaminants from it.

I didn't get any useable pictures of the misses with my phone, but it acted just like a touch of oil or something on the surface. I was using leather gloves. Maybe I needed to use some new rubber gloves instead.

Has anyone ever used a surfactant with the sprays to cut surface tension? I'm wondering if a drop or two of detergent, or a purpose surfactant like Syl-Tac (which I use for spraying weeds) would work.

[abmagrum]

I think all you have to do is soak in acid, rinse with water well, slightly dry with air hose, spry copper fx, rinse,

no soap or other chemicals

[steelfx]

Once you've polished the steel, you don't want to put it back in the acid tank.

Any spots that are repelling the patina are one of two things: 1) a slight bit of oil, even a fingerprint or 2) a drop of sweat which will carry some skin oil to the surface.

I don't wear gloves when handling the polished steel, but I do hold every piece by the edges only. Or, I slide the back-side of the piece onto my hand & carry it outside. Leather gloves will get you in trouble, even if they're brand new. Even if they feel clean, they contain oil or lanolin.

You do not want to add surfactant or any other product to the patinas. They are carefully mixed to a certain pH & any chemical changes to the formula will denegrate the quality. Guaranteed.

Bill


P.S. You can always do a water-break test on your steel prior to applying the COPPER F/X.

Instructions for Water Break Test:

1) Lay polished steel piece as flat as possible with the good side up.
2) Flood with water. (Cohesive Action will keep all the water from going over the edge)
3) Look for dry spots that I call "islands". They may be as small as a BB or much bigger. That's oil.

Even those folks that try to add extra steps, e.g. wiping the steel w/ solvent AFTER polishing are going to have issues.
Any solvent, even acetone, can & usually will leave a repellent surface. If you use any cleaner, be sure you do it
BEFORE using the flap disc. When I'm working with P&O steel, and even CR steel, I use GRiME GIT'R to remove the oily surface before I start my polishing.

bw


thanks!

[bhamer62]

Just a few extra things I learned the hard way...

1. Clean all oils from steel before polishing! Completely!! Now do it again, you missed some.
2. NEVER use a sanding disc that has been used on oily steel, use a fresh new one!!!! Or, you will just burn the oil deeper into the steel when you do try to polish it.
3. Make sure your work area is oil free before you begin to polish the steel!!! Don't just use your grimy ass work bench without cleaning it thoroughly before putting your cleaned steel on it.
4. If you are too lazy to do any of the above you are just wasting your time and money. You will have to start over anyhow.
5. Last but not least, when you do all things they way you should, you will be rewarded with a beautiful finished product

[Zephrant]

Great tips, thanks- I was pretty careful not to touch the surface of the steel, but the leather gloves may have hurt me. Either that, or maybe the flap-disk was not clean enough.

Will the acid neutralize the oil at all? I didn't clean the steel before doing the acid, but I didn't add oil them either.

Will try again sometime soon, but went though the quart of copper pretty fast. Need to place another order to be able to try again.

Thanks again for the tips-

[steelfx]

Acid won't neutralize or remove oil. It would be like pulling a pair of jeans out of your Dryer & throwing 'em back in the Washer. It's liable to dull the shine & facilitate flash-rust that now has to be polished off again. It's a totally
unnecessary step. If you stick to the basics, use common sense when using your abrasives and handling the steel, the results will be worth the effort.

Cutting corners doesn't work. Adding steps doesn't work.

You're welcome regarding the input. Hamer said what I couldn't, so thanks Bill!

bw

[Zephrant]

Thanks- I wasn't re-aciding them, I was just wondering if the acid would have any effect on oil from the manufacturer during the first pass. I didn't clean the parts in any way before flapping them, so it sounds like I should wipe them down before grinding.

Looking forward to trying again-

[abmetal]

I've found out that I have the best results by cleaning the steel before I even cut. Then I brush off my parts with a foxtail brush before I even use the flapwheel. I then clean my flap wheel with compressed air before and during the cleaning of the part(s). I know it sounds like more work but it actually takes very little time. I also discovered that one brand of flap wheel is manufactured with thin, tiny plastic supports between each abrasive piece that, after the wheel is worn down about half way, starts contacting the metal and, as a result, leaves fine melted streaks on the steel that isn't even noticeable until the finish is applied. That about drove me crazy until I finally figured it out.

I've watched Bill's tutorials over and over and over and he covers it good, he's the master, but there's always things that enters into it such as the darn flap wheels, type of steel, etc., that drive you crazy. I still have what I assume are imperfections show up and I've just resigned myself to the fact that they won't be perfect. One customer once said "aw, that just gives em' character". Good customer!

Allen