How to transfer a CAD drawing to 5x10 sheet w/o cnc table?

[Bill321]

This is kind of off-topic for this group, sorry, but there are probably a few people here with good answers. I have been exploring the possibility of buying a cnc plasma cutting table, but I don't think that my need quite justifies the expense, so I am now thinking about Plan B.

I do design work in a CAD program (Rhino) and I sporadically need parts cut from those files -- on average, a few parts per week. Most of my parts are large enough that I get 3-8 parts from a 5' x 10' sheet. I most commonly work with .062" - 3/8" aluminum. The most obvious solution is to pay someone else to cut the parts (and I have done this). If there were a plasma-cutting service next door, that would be easy, but driving time is an issue. The solution I have used for several years is to convert my files to PDF and have them printed on 3' wide paper, then glue it on the aluminum and cut the parts with a jig saw. This has worked pretty well for me, but I would prefer a more direct process.

So . . . the question:
Is there a low-cost way to print dxf or pdf files directly on a metal sheet?

In researching this question I found that a company is about to start selling a small robotic printer (~$200) that moves across a piece of stationary paper, like a little tractor, depositing ink. I doubt that it would maintain accurate measurements across a 5' x 10' sheet, but it offers interesting possibilities for the future.
http://www.zutalabs.com/

[acourtjester]

find a architects printer shop they have large plotters that print from files like DFX

[Larry83301]

This is kind of off-topic for this group, sorry, but there are probably a few people here with good answers. I have been exploring the possibility of buying a cnc plasma cutting table, but I don't think that my need quite justifies the expense, so I am now thinking about Plan B.

I do design work in a CAD program (Rhino) and I sporadically need parts cut from those files -- on average, a few parts per week. Most of my parts are large enough that I get 3-8 parts from a 5' x 10' sheet. I most commonly work with .062" - 3/8" aluminum. The most obvious solution is to pay someone else to cut the parts (and I have done this). If there were a plasma-cutting service next door, that would be easy, but driving time is an issue. The solution I have used for several years is to convert my files to PDF and have them printed on 3' wide paper, then glue it on the aluminum and cut the parts with a jig saw. This has worked pretty well for me, but I would prefer a more direct process.

So . . . the question:
Is there a low-cost way to print dxf or pdf files directly on a metal sheet?

In researching this question I found that a company is about to start selling a small robotic printer (~$200) that moves across a piece of stationary paper, like a little tractor, depositing ink. I doubt that it would maintain accurate measurements across a 5' x 10' sheet, but it offers interesting possibilities for the future.
http://www.zutalabs.com/

I have used plasma services several hundred miles from my house. I have no idea what the place looks like as I have NEVER driven there. I just send the DXF file by email to the shop and they send the parts back to me using the USPS, saves lots of time and gas plus wear and tear on my car or truck.
If you look at some of my parts you would see that a saw would take many days!



Larry

[Bill321]

find a architects printer shop they have large plotters that print from files like DFX

I assume you mean prints on paper. If so, that's what I have been doing. I have been looking to see if I might find an old large format printer/plotter for less than $500 to keep in my office.

I just send the DXF file by email to the shop and they send the parts back to me using the USPS, saves lots of time and gas plus wear and tear on my car or truck. Larry

Many of my parts are 8-10' long. That makes shipping a little more complicated. Plus, I would rather not have to wait.

If you look at some of my parts you would see that a saw would take many days!
Larry

From what I have seen on this site, most people are cutting more complicated parts than my typical parts. Mine are really pretty easy to saw.

[m_drunk]

borrow a digital projector, hook it to your laptop, screw the sheet to the wall and trace it.

[vmax549]

You can usually find old pen ploters BUT trying to find a DRIVER to make them run is another story. There are virutally NO drivers created after XP to drive them. There IS a universal Driver that does a fabulus job BUT it is $200 just for the driver.
Also most pen plotters are small footprint on plot size. I have a really NICE old HP draftpro plus pen plotter it creates some of the finest drawings (;-) Would not trade it for a room full of inkjets (;-).

You could actually BUILD an XY table just for drawing using a roller ball paint pen to draw directly on the metal to be cut.

Build it as a simple belt drive system ( same as a ploter) it would not need large drives or motors nema 17s would be fine.

With your OWN plotter you are in total control of the process.

Just a thought, (;-) TP

[Bill321]

You could actually BUILD an XY table just for drawing using a roller ball paint pen to draw directly on the metal to be cut.
Build it as a simple belt drive system ( same as a ploter) it would not need large drives or motors nema 17s would be fine.
With your OWN plotter you are in total control of the process.
Just a thought, (;-) TP

I like that idea. It would allow me to mark directly on the metal and I could possibly make it a wall-mounted unit (or it could at least fold up against the wall) so that it wouldn't take much floor space. It sounds a little overwhelming though. I don't have much experience with electronics or appropriate software knowledge, so I fear that I could sink a lot of time into it.

[tnbndr]

have a really NICE old HP draftpro plus pen plotter it creates some of the finest drawings (;-) Would not trade it for a room full of inkjets (;-).

Really!!!!!, you must have to produce some special drawings. I have used both and pen plotters require a lot of maintenance to keep the pens clean, ink storage, filling pens a pain and they are slow. Fun to watch for a while!!!
I prefer the inkjets, very good quality plots and the newer ones are super fast.

He could find inkjets for around $500 also.

[vmax549]

AND what are the price for those Cartridges ???? They could GIVE you the inkjet for what they charge for INK. IF you are in that big of a hurry go laser.

Proper pen maintainance only takes few minutes. It is like any other thing you get out of it what you put into it. Have you ever had one of those $$$ new cartridges draw about 2 feet of line and quit ???

A pen plotter adds charector to a drawing same as a hand drawn print does. Works of art sometimes.

Different strokes for different folks , your mileage may vary.

BUT for the subject at hand. You can email the drawing file to a COPY house and have the drawing back in a day or so Fed X.

Drawing direct to metal saves time and the expense of producing a paper template. Roller paint pens are cheap. BUT then there is the extra time and effort to produce the Gcode files AND it is not as easy to rotate the Part to fit the metal as it is to move a paper drawing around on the sheet.

So it all depends (;-) , TP

[_Ogre]

not sure how intricate your pieces are or how accurate the layout needs to be
you could probably find an overhead projector or opaque projector for cheap on craigslist
then manually trace from the projection

overhead projector would require printing on clear film



while the opaque projector can do any printed material; printed, books, magazines, etc...
i believe that is my 4th grade teacher in the pic



you could also get a cheap projector to plug into a laptop and bypass the print-to-projector part

[Bill321]

With any projector, there could be some degree of distortion. That might prevent the edges of the metal parts from matching properly when I assemble them. Printing paper templates and gluing them to the metal for cutting has been sufficiently accurate, but I'd like to print directly on the metal from the DXF or PDF file, if possible.

[_Ogre]

but I'd like to print directly on the metal from the DXF or PDF file, if possible.

think about what your asking: a 5'x10' printer
i'd think that would require a 5'x10' cnc plotter or laser
might as well buy the cnc plasma cutter

[Bill321]

but I'd like to print directly on the metal from the DXF or PDF file, if possible.

think about what your asking: a 5'x10' printer
i'd think that would require a 5'x10' cnc plotter or laser
might as well buy the cnc plasma cutter

I understand what you are saying. I was hopeful that someone might suggest a low-cost / low-effort option I was unaware of. In the mean time, I will continue to pay a blue print shop to print templates for me. If I can find a used wide-format printer for $500 or less, I may start printing my own. If I discover a plasma-cutting service within a few miles of my workshop, I'll pay to have pieces cut.

[Larry83301]

but I'd like to print directly on the metal from the DXF or PDF file, if possible.

think about what your asking: a 5'x10' printer
i'd think that would require a 5'x10' cnc plotter or laser
might as well buy the cnc plasma cutter

I understand what you are saying. I was hopeful that someone might suggest a low-cost / low-effort option I was unaware of. In the mean time, I will continue to pay a blue print shop to print templates for me. If I can find a used wide-format printer for $500 or less, I may start printing my own. If I discover a plasma-cutting service within a few miles of my workshop, I'll pay to have pieces cut.

You mite look around for a LARGE FORMAT PLOTTER (I've seen them at the GOODWILL store and hook it up to an older PC that's running XP. Most of these plotters are at least 3ft or more and there are many ways to print pages that are side-by-side (6', 9', 12' etc. ) Example - 42" large format printer on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/42-HP-DesignJet ... 2ee078b2ca
Less then $100 with free shipping, add that to an old computer and you only have a few hundred into your own printing/ plotting office. Just my $0.02

Larry

[beefy]

I agree with Terry. Look into the full size XY plotter.

The cost would be a fraction of a plasma table. Mach & a cheap PC, basic breakout board, cheap stepper drivers because the motors can be small and run at low speed, low acceleration. Most of the "table" can be made of wood. Use angle iron for V-rails or just square tube and small bearings. Not sure but I think Mach can take a dxf directly so no need for cam.

With low speed, low acceleration operation, you could run the steppers direct without gearing. Use small chain or belt as a rack, with the driving sprocket moving along the chain/belt (stops chain bounce - I know about this well ).

There's no comparison between a simple plotter and a fully functional plasma table, cost wise or construction wise.

Keith.

[btburn]

If you don't mind taping a bunch of sheets together use this:
http://woodgears.ca/bigprint/

For $22 it's cheap, easy and doesn't require anything you don't already have assuming you have a printer.

[Bill321]

I agree with Terry. Look into the full size XY plotter.

The cost would be a fraction of a plasma table. Mach & a cheap PC, basic breakout board, cheap stepper drivers because the motors can be small and run at low speed, low acceleration. Most of the "table" can be made of wood. Use angle iron for V-rails or just square tube and small bearings. Not sure but I think Mach can take a dxf directly so no need for cam.

With low speed, low acceleration operation, you could run the steppers direct without gearing. Use small chain or belt as a rack, with the driving sprocket moving along the chain/belt (stops chain bounce - I know about this well ).

There's no comparison between a simple plotter and a fully functional plasma table, cost wise or construction wise.

Keith.

With a quick search for parts, it looks like a 5' x 10' XY plotter with Mach3 might cost around $500 or so, plus time.
Mach3 $175 (+LazyCAM Pro, for dxf files? $75)
2 NEMA 17 motors + board ~$100
Used PC $100
rails $40
bearings $40
misc. hardware $20
misc. ?

I'm thinking about it . . . still concerned about the tendency for projects to consume more hours than expected . . . .

I did a search to see if I could find a pre-made large XY plotter, or a kit. I didn't find anything that was just what I want, but here are a few pics:

[tnbndr]

If I discover a plasma-cutting service within a few miles of my workshop, I'll pay to have pieces cut.

You did not state where you are located! Perhaps there is a member on here located near you that would do your cutting.

[Bill321]

If I discover a plasma-cutting service within a few miles of my workshop, I'll pay to have pieces cut.

You did not state where you are located! Perhaps there is a member on here located near you that would do your cutting.

Asheville, NC

[vmax549]

You don't need LazyCam PRO as there are no offsetting to do the FRee version would work just fine that saves $75. And all you really need is a simple flat table 1 driven side rail ((use #290 Chain, small strong) 1 Y axis motor with sprocket 1 X axis motor with sprocket.

The undriven side only needs a bearing to support the end of the gantry , As there is NO cutting forces it can be very light weight. Screw the side rail down to the top of the table surface.

Just a thought, (;-) TP

[vmax549]

You don't need LazyCam PRO as there are no offsetting to do the FRee version would work just fine that saves $75. And all you really need is a simple flat table 1 driven side rail ((use #290 Chain, small strong) 1 Y axis motor with sprocket 1 X axis motor with sprocket.

The undriven side only needs a bearing to support the end of the gantry , As there is NO cutting forces it can be very light weight. Screw the side rail down to the top of the table surface.

Just a thought, (;-) TP

[Bill321]

You don't need LazyCam PRO as there are no offsetting to do the FRee version would work just fine that saves $75. And all you really need is a simple flat table 1 driven side rail ((use #290 Chain, small strong) 1 Y axis motor with sprocket 1 X axis motor with sprocket.

The undriven side only needs a bearing to support the end of the gantry , As there is NO cutting forces it can be very light weight. Screw the side rail down to the top of the table surface.

Just a thought, (;-) TP

Any suggestions about raising/lowering the marker? A linear solenoid? Just let it drag between parts?

[dustywill]

Any suggestions about raising/lowering the marker? A linear solenoid? Just let it drag between parts?

I would probably let it drag. If you an build this you are smart enough to ignore the extra line. I would make the marker holder not much more than a snug fit tube. Then I'dd add weight to a sharpie and let gravity make sure it was pushed down hard enough to write.

If that is not enough you could easily adapt an rc servo to lift and press the pen down with very little variation. They go for something like $12 for something like what you'd need. You can even set them for an angle depending on how you control the motion.

[tnbndr]

Asheville, NC

Nice place, have visited there several times and rented cabin in the mountains.
That is an artsy community, I bet there are several members on this forum that live nearby. Start networking.

[Bill321]

I would probably let it drag. If you an build this you are smart enough to ignore the extra line. I would make the marker holder not much more than a snug fit tube. Then I'dd add weight to a sharpie and let gravity make sure it was pushed down hard enough to write.

If that is not enough you could easily adapt an rc servo to lift and press the pen down with very little variation. They go for something like $12 for something like what you'd need.

If I let it drag, I think the lines might get confusing in places, but that would certainly be the simplest solution. I'd be inclined to go ahead and add a lift motor, it is isn't too involved.

I'm going to let this idea percolate for a while. Part of me is still wondering if I can justify a plasma table, so I don't want to build a plotter, then turn around and build a plasma table.