Plasmacam 4x4 to 4x8 on a budget

[Joe Jones]

I am tempted to buy two used 4x4 DHC2 tables and bolt them together into a 4x8 with some simple mods on the center legs, just to demonstrate how easily this conversion can be done. It really is just a matter of mating two tables together, sliding the gear racks of the second table inward to mate up to the racks in the first set of rails, and fabricating a boom arm to swing from the center joint of the table to each side of a 4x4 field. The rail center joints would need to be supported from the bottom rather than the inside vertical surfaces as they are now, so the gantry can cross over the joints without interference.

The controller would also need to be moved, but I really believe it would be BEST to get rid of the boom completely, and set up this 4x4 DUO with drag chains for the wiring harnesses. It MIGHT be necessary to switch to the 510 main wiring harness, which is longer.

I am watching for two used 4x4 tables that might pop up for a reasonable price.

Joe

[rdj357]

What about your lasers, I thought you'd said several times now you were just going to sell everything plasma and switch to lasers? That or you said you were just going to sell everything and quit making stuff and enjoy life doing what you wanted to do, I don't remember which. What about your sun tracking engraving project? That was a pretty cool idea that I know several people here on this forum were following that and excited to see how it turned out. Did you ever get your custom auto-closing metal shutters made and installed on your house? I remember the wind shut down your powder coat oven so that is off the proverbial plate. Wait, you shouldn't need a longer harness - I remember you saying you were going to get rid of the boom by using roller switches and long rods of something - did you ever finish that so you could use it on this new project?

[Joe Jones]

I have a lot on my plate, and no help from anyone, physically, or financially. Priorities are always shifting. For example, the projects slated for Spring of 2024 may have to wait, because after a home inspection, it was revealed that several of the aluminum clad wooden windows on this home, (now 24 years old) are rotting from water seepage and brutal winter storms, and they need to be replaced now.

I am not the kind of guy who will only replace "the bad windows," and end up with a pie-balled home with a hodgepodge of windows from various manufacturers. Sooo ... I am having ALL of the windows replaced on the home with new dual pane energy efficient vinyl windows ... all 17 of them. Since insurance will not cover this cost, it comes out straight of my pocket, so about ten grand of the money slated for some of the projects you mentioned above will just have to wait a while longer.

Add to this, the phone calls from the nursing home in Illinois, where I have been informed that my uncle (age 86) has basically given up on life and he is in hospice care to make him comfortable for his remaining days. I will have to deal with the aftermath, and that will be both time consuming and expensive.

I just had a bathroom shower enclosure remodeled at a cost of $13K, and the spray foam insulation in the FrankenBarn is great, but that was another $14K out of my pocket. The elevator gable is now completed at $5K, but I have to sift through the gu'mint BS to get the lift installed and functional. More time. More money. Today, I ordered a new alarm system for my home at a cost of a thousand dollars. ADT has just become too greedy wit their prices.

I just dumped two grand into a friend's car so it would be reliable and safe to transport her elderly mother. I just bought that HFT 13Kw Tri-Fuel generator for another grand. I just added a GENERAC 24Kw backup generator to my home, another $14K. I am looking into purchasing and flipping a home in this area too. The demand for money is endless.

Yes, I want to accomplish ALL of these goals, but alas, no one is rushing here to help me with them, or sending big fat checks to help offset the massive costs.

Joe

[Joe Jones]

Well, I got the call tonight. My uncle died at 3:00 AM. Now I have to run up to Illinois to handle all of the final arrangements. I expect to get the same call about my cousin (now age 84) very soon. Life is short. Eat dessert first.

Joe

[rdj357]

I’m sorry for your loss. Your extended family is lucky to have someone physically and financially able to take care of them all across the country.

[Joe Jones]

He outlived the last longest living male family member by 18 years!

Joe

[Joe Jones]

I am still searching for two good quality 4x4 tables! I want to try the experiment of bolting them together to make a 4x8. I think the process would be quite simple. Rather than weld two rails together and try to Frankenstein the grates together, etc., why not just bolt one against the other, modify the center legs and support the rail butt joints from beneath instead of from the front edges? After that, you would only need to do a swinging boom arm, or install drag chains for the cables. Am I wrong?

Joe

[rdj357]

What is the difference between that and just buying 2 more rails and fabricating the center leg and supports patterned after the 510 and making a pivoting boom, again patterned after the 510? Why buy an entire additional table except to have some spare parts?

[Joe Jones]

It would be easier to bolt two 4x4s together.

Joe

[Msw]

I basically did this. I made the center legs and made the second table frame. Used same grates. It was very easy. It’s actually 4x9 cutting area

[rdj357]

I basically did this. I made the center legs and made the second table frame. Used same grates. It was very easy. It’s actually 4x9 cutting area

That's how most people have accomplished it. It really makes no sense to connect 2 complete tables to one another that I can see other than having spare parts.

[Joe Jones]

It requires imagination and the ability to think outside of the box.

Joe

[rdj357]

We will be excited to see the pictures when you accomplish this so we can compare it to other's methods!!

[Joe Jones]

I guarantee a remarkable table conversion. I am debating just buying two more new 4x4 tables, instead of hunting for two used tables... Still trying to save some money if I can.

Joe

[rdj357]

Sure! Why not - just buy two brand new tables and then you will have brand new grates and shiny new paint.

Like you said, all you have to do is bolt the tables together after you modify 4 of the legs. With the thickness of the legs it should only be about 3/8" gap between the rails. Just a little more altering and fabrication to fix that but definitely, probably easier than just fabricating a middle leg like many have done. Simple!

Anyway, let's see it in real life and not in video. I am positive there are many people here on this forum that would love to see it! Finished projects are awesome to see! I think you're on to something here!

[Joe Jones]

Sure! Why not - just buy two brand new tables and then you will have brand new grates and shiny new paint.

Like you said, all you have to do is bolt the tables together after you modify 4 of the legs. With the thickness of the legs it should only be about 3/8" gap between the rails. Just a little more altering and fabrication to fix that but definitely, probably easier than just fabricating a middle leg like many have done. Simple!

If the GEAR RACKS are butted together and spaced for a smooth transition of the gantry drive shaft gear from one rail gear rack to the next one, all that remains to be done is to shift each rail toward the center butt joint. If that means reaming out the mount bolts at the end legs by a fraction to allow for the shift, then so be it. Not difficult at all.

4x4 rail shift.jpg

As for modifying four legs, yes, the pointed tips would need to be cut off, and the four center legs would need to support the rail joints from beneath, instead of from the back sides as they do now. They would mate together just like the Samson 510 tables. Again, not difficult at all.

Anyway, let's see it in real life and not in video. I am positive there are many people here on this forum that would love to see it! Finished projects are awesome to see! I think you're on to something here!

Ideally, the controller would be moved to the center of one side, and drag chains would replace those STUPID swinging cables!

If all goes well, it may happen this Spring or Summer. There is a LOT to do already.

Joe

[Joe Jones]

I just need to find two DHC2 4x4s at a decent price

GOD FORBID PlasmaCam should just send me two new tables free of charge (without the DE licenses) One complete table, and a second table without the gantry or carriage assemblies, and let me do this, so they can then set up a "4x4 to 4x8" package that will make the transition effortless. They probably have NO CLUE how many more 4x4 tables (and $998.00 CSU Upgrades) they would sell! I am guessing it would be HUNDREDS!

Joe

[rdj357]

]

If the GEAR RACKS are butted together and spaced for a smooth transition of the gantry drive shaft gear from one rail gear rack to the next one, all that remains to be done is to shift each rail toward the center butt joint. If that means reaming out the mount bolts at the end legs by a fraction to allow for the shift, then so be it. Not difficult at all.

….

As for modifying four legs, yes, the pointed tips would need to be cut off, and the four center legs would need to support the rail joints from beneath, instead of from the back sides as they do now. They would mate together just like the Samson 510 tables. Again, not difficult at all.

….

If all goes well, it may happen this Spring or Summer. There is a LOT to do already.

Joe

GREAT! I see how simple that could be compared to fabricating 2 new center legs that hold the rails and gear racks!

We’ll be watching for those pictures - there is always a lot to do but this seems to be a project you’re very passionate about so I, for one, am excited to see how it turns out. I think 2 new tables is the way to go. I doubt PlasmaCAM will be giving anything away but isn’t that why you’ve worked and saved all your life to be able to spend your hard earned money on fun projects that you really want to do!? Why else do we work so hard if we can’t have fun with some cash every once in awhile!?!?

[Joe Jones]

I don't mind buying two tables, but I don't need two (more) DesignEdge licenses, and I don't need two controllers, or two gantry assemblies, or two carriage assemblies for this experiment.

I could buy all of the individual parts from PlasmaCam, I suppose. However, that means ordering eight legs, eight frame members, two complete sets of grates, one gantry assembly, one carriage assembly, all of he nuts and bolts, and so much more.

Wouldn't it be better to just buy a complete table (only) without a controller, and another table without the controller, gantry, carriage, boom arm, main wiring harness, etc.?

The purpose for this experiment would be to prove that it CAN be done, easily and cheaply. I would encourage PlamaCam to then offer the "4x4 to 4x8 KIT" as a single package, along with the CSU software upgrade to handle the 4x8 platform.

I may buy two tables and just use the additional parts for other things. I suppose I COULD SELL the spare controller, gantry assembly and carriage assembly, and recover most of my money on the second table parts that I sell.

Who knows. I will wait to see if they will sell me two "bare bones" tables for this experiment, or not. I CAN do this with two used tables, but I would rather use NEW components, simply because it would look so much better in photos and videos of the project.

Joe

[rdj357]

I would be shocked if PlasmaCAM offers any option that's 'off-book' as they seem to follow protocol with sometimes shocking rigidity. They are notoriously unbending from what I've heard.

Have you ever ordered legs from them? I know they are said to sell controllers a la carte even though they are not listed but I've never heard of anyone buying a leg. It's not an unreasonable part to fabricate and of course if they did sell legs and hardware, the 510 center leg and related pieces would be of value if you abandoned the 4x4 times two concept. Buying piecemeal parts and assembling wouldn't really be proving your concept, would it?

I know it's your hard earned money so I'd definitely look for a good deal or consider selling parts to recover some of the investment but new would definitely look better in the coming pictures!

[acourtjester]

You mean selling the controller and software to someone else would not void the warranty Like may manufactures do to scare people.
The way you talk about them not being flexible make me think the complete DIY build would be easier. Many member out there doing great work with other software, DesignEdge is not GOLDEN. I better get in my foxhole again over that.

[Joe Jones]

DesignEdge is not GOLDEN. I better get in my foxhole again over that.

I will be the FIRST to say that I can think of a hundred improvements to DesignEdge that will NEVER see the light of day.

The thing about DesignEdge, is the SPEED. Sit me down at a table with DesignEdge, and any other person(s) at other tables with their design software du jur, and have an independent arbitrator assign various design tasks, from simple brackets and saddles, to more complicated pieces. Give everyone the specs at the same time and I am betting that the person running DesignEdge will almost ALWAYS be the first to produce the part on a table.

Yes, the software lacks a lot of features and capabilities that I would dearly love to add at my own expense, perhaps as "plugins" or whatever, and distribute them to PlasmaCam owners across the globe. However, the owner of DesignEdge has NO INTEREST in improving the software. I understand that it involves lawyers, and coding, and new Patents, etc. So DesignEdge is destined to BE what it is now, and forever, as far as I can see.

I know that many ... (most?) of the cnc plasma tables around the world DO NOT run DesignEdge. I figure they are the huge Lincoln machines with the 16 x 40 foot tables, etc. that are used in industrial settings to build battleships.

But for the "home hobby" cnc plasma table users, the 4x4 to 5x10 crowd, DesignEdge is hard to beat.

The thing that turns me off of the others is that I would evidently need to learn THREE software programs to run a table. Mach 3 ... (something)CAD and (something)CAM, in order to cut out a part. With DesignEdge, I can go from a napkin sketch to a finished part, in record time, using ONLY DesignEdge and the PlasmaCam or Samson 510 tables.

I admit that I have never even RUN a machine with the other software. However, I see all of the rapidly dancing lines of code as just chest pounding. No one can read them as they fly by, so it is just eye candy, and making tiny little adjustments to this line of code or that one ... WAY too much effort for me to even try it. Draw a bracket, put four holes in it and cut it NOW. That is where the PlasmaCam tables and DesignEdge software really shine.

Also, DesignEdge apparently has more DESIGN capability, with manipulation of vector lines for artsy crafty things. The other programs are not so easy or intuitive, and I do not BELIEVE they have that level of drawing tools. I could be wr ... wro .... not exactly right!

Joe

[SegoMan DeSigns]

the complete DIY build would be easier. Many member out there doing great work with other software

Heck a brand new spiffy Iron Worker would pay out on this project as well

[Joe Jones]

The way you talk about them not being flexible make me think the complete DIY build would be easier.

Sorry. I have seen the other tables, with various exposed circuit boards, and a rat's nest of wires running from here to there. Yes, they DO work as cnc plasma tables, but I see them as high school electronics projects, not professional, well designed machines.

Joe

[Joe Jones]

the complete DIY build would be easier. Many member out there doing great work with other software

Heck a brand new spiffy Iron Worker would pay out on this project as well

I looked at the Edwards and the Scotchman ironworkers! Oh, man! I would love to add one of those to my shop!

Joe