I am Considering a 3D printer

Topics related to 3d printers and 3d printed plasma table accessories.
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by Joe Jones »

adbuch wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:41 am
I printed them all on my Voxel mp3 with pla filament.

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-133820 ... B07GV5GLLC

mp3.jpg
The CreatBot 600 D1 build envelope is 64 times the size of that Voxel printer at 600x600x600mm. I just don't like to buy small, then a little bigger, then a little bigger ... If I get into this, I will just jump in with both feet. If nothing else, it will make for a great Estate sale :lol:

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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by adbuch »

They say if you don't like the movie, then change the channel.
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by Joe Jones »

adbuch wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:47 pm I will look forward to seeing your first project drawn in Design Edge and converted to 3D with Fusion360.
That will probably be my URN. :Wow

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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by Joe Jones »

I WOULD like to sell my NextEngine 3D scanner. That would push me closer to the printer.

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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by robertspark »

have you used a 3d printer before?

they are not quick..... and the longer the print time (bigger the print / smaller the nozzle) the more chance of print failure..... and a several day print failing is both a waste of time and material.

hence my 300x300 bed size is more than enough for a 3d printer in my opinion..... but then it depends upon WHAT you want to print + with what.

I tend to use PETG. I started with PLA (like everyone), and have tried TPU but my bowden setup did not like it (or I could not get it right, I have a roll still and may give it another go now I have a direct drive setup).

I tend to print with a 0.6mm nozzle most of the time.

Start out small and see where it takes you.

You have also stated that you have a lot of unfinished projects.... is this going to be just another tool that is not used to finish a project? {that is not sarcasm but if it's to help you finish something great..... if you are about to start something else are you sure it's a good idea, the learning time for 3d printing is not (in my opinion) zero..... getting past the first layer is always an issue for me...... but once I'm on layer 2 then everything seems to print fine.

If you want to calibrate your printer and set it up for interlocking parts, this is the best item that I print to set up the nozzle flow
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:342198

to calibrate other stuff then I use these models / this site a bit for a guide:
https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html

walk before you can run.....
first you learned to walk and man I'm sure that was difficult then came the running, then cycling.... and then maybe you graduated to a bike, car van or pickup.... I don't think many start out avoiding those things or that path and just get the $$M sports car age zero, experience zero.
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

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robertspark wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:08 am have you used a 3d printer before?

they are not quick..... and the longer the print time (bigger the print / smaller the nozzle) the more chance of print failure..... and a several day print failing is both a waste of time and material.

hence my 300x300 bed size is more than enough for a 3d printer in my opinion..... but then it depends upon WHAT you want to print + with what.

I tend to use PETG. I started with PLA (like everyone), and have tried TPU but my bowden setup did not like it (or I could not get it right, I have a roll still and may give it another go now I have a direct drive setup).

I tend to print with a 0.6mm nozzle most of the time.

Start out small and see where it takes you.

You have also stated that you have a lot of unfinished projects.... is this going to be just another tool that is not used to finish a project? {that is not sarcasm but if it's to help you finish something great..... if you are about to start something else are you sure it's a good idea, the learning time for 3d printing is not (in my opinion) zero..... getting past the first layer is always an issue for me...... but once I'm on layer 2 then everything seems to print fine.

If you want to calibrate your printer and set it up for interlocking parts, this is the best item that I print to set up the nozzle flow
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:342198

to calibrate other stuff then I use these models / this site a bit for a guide:
https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html

walk before you can run.....
first you learned to walk and man I'm sure that was difficult then came the running, then cycling.... and then maybe you graduated to a bike, car van or pickup.... I don't think many start out avoiding those things or that path and just get the $$M sports car age zero, experience zero.
Thanks Robert. I too am interested in dabbling in 3D printing after seeing some of stuff Tom and others are making and this sounds like very good advice :Like
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

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robertspark wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:08 am have you used a 3d printer before? they are not quick.
Understood. It is like the PlasmaCam. You try to cut a large piece, and 95% into it, the machine takes a hard right turn on a cut path and slices the thing in half because a cable harness connection was loose. :-?
hence my 300x300 bed size is more than enough for a 3d printer in my opinion..... but then it depends upon WHAT you want to print + with what.
I would like to be able to print something the size of a large PC tower, or a modified rear trunk design for my Goldwing.

Again, understood. Some people buy an oven to bake a potato. Other people buy an oven to bake a 30 lb. turkey, even though they will mostly just bake a potato. But when the need arises to bake a turkey, the people with the tiny ovens are S.O.L.
I tend to use PETG. I started with PLA (like everyone), and have tried TPU
I REALLY want a printer that will use ULTEM, but they are 'Spensive, Lucy!

I will start out small, regardless of the printer's capacity, until I become familiar with the most likely errors that can surface during the print process ... running out of element, power failures, etc.
You have also stated that you have a lot of unfinished projects.... is this going to be just another tool that is not used to finish a project?
I DO have many tasks that I would love to complete before I die, and having no helper, nor having the level of energy I had in my thirties makes a lot of them problematic. I will tackle one of them today, in about an hour. I need to make that guitar end plate for my banjo instructor. I am up against a deadline. It doesn't take long to make it, but I am going to make six different designs, and let him choose the one he wants to put onto the guitar. The other five will become items "For Sale" in his music store. He is going through a difficult time right now, and I am trying to help him out.
If you want to calibrate your printer and set it up for interlocking parts ...
I won't be getting into that for quite a while. Basic prints of basic things to start out. Maybe a Chess Set. Maybe a wall clock. But first, I need to be in the position to BUY the printer, and right now, TODAY, given the current circumstances, I am not there. If I were Elon Musk, I could just get everything done at once, by paying people to do them and buying whatever I wanted. I am NOT Elon Musk.

My financial situation changes frequently, and rapidly. Sometimes I have money, and I begin to consider a large purchase of something like a 3D printer, or an ironworker, or a commercial level laser table, etc. Then ... S**T HAPPENS, and the next large purchase will have to wait a while longer.

For example, I was online just a few days ago, debating moving forward with the purchase of the CreatBot D600 PRO printer. I was debating shipping charges vs driving out to CommieFornia to pick it up myself, and visit friends while I was there. I was looking up the price of stocking up on various spools of filiments to have on hand, etc. etc., when my phone rang. A very dear lifelong family friend's husband died unexpectedly under a respirator a few days ago. He went in for other minor issues, but he got the clot shot, so ... That was bad enough ... but yesterday I learned that her uncle ALSO died last night. She has to deal with TWO funerals now, and she suddenly finds herself needing to move out of their 3 BD/2BA apartment to a smaller unit that is more affordable, now that her income has been drastically cut so suddenly.

Some people post smarmy comments about my hesitance to just run out and spend my money willy-nilly, and pound their chests AS IF they have somehow proven me to be insincere, just because I don't rush out to spend $15K or $20K the very moment I first consider a large purchase. Here is the most recent example:
Please show us some photos of your new Edwards or Scotchman once you have it installed into your shop. It would be nice to know you are serious and not just kidding around like you usually do.


What these CYNICAL FOOLS do not understand is, priorities CHANGE. When a family friend calls, and tells you about the umpteen thousands of dollars of unexpected expenses that have been dropped into her lap, while she also deals with the MOST stressful things a person can do, MOVING IN A HURRY, and right after her spouse and her uncle both DIE, you DON'T tell her,

"Sorry your life sucks so much, but I am going to spend $20K on a new machine now, to prove to some IDIOT on an Internet forum that I am sincere about the purchase!"

As a MATURE ADULT, you immediately divert that money to your friend, to help that person through a very difficult time, and you DROP whatever you are doing and drive to Arkansas if that becomes necessary, to help in any way, if only for moral support.

When another lifelong friend tells you he has terminal prostate cancer, and the puke green Town and Country minivan he was driving has died, you DON'T tell him,

"Sorry your life sucks so much, but I am going to spend $20K on a new machine now, to prove to some IDIOT on an Internet forum that I am sincere about the purchase!"

You get together with his wife and his brother, to raise the funds to purchase the car he has always wanted to drive, a new Dodge Challenger with the V-8 HEMI engine, so that he can enjoy his few remaining years with a little bit of pride, and you don't think about the $25K you kicked in, that COULD have bought the ironworker LAST YEAR.

As a MATURE ADULT, you immediately divert that money to your friend. It is called COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATISM.

walk before you can run.....


Last night, I was looking att the upper level ENDER 3D printers under a thousand dollars, for just that reason. There ARE a few "potatoes" I could cook until the turkey oven arrives.

Joe
Last edited by Joe Jones on Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by acourtjester »

Good info Robert, converting to a direct drive will be a big help with TPU, I converted both of the Anycubic printers I am using. Pretty sure Thingiverse has conversion for most bowden printers to direct drive. I will say any DIY type thinking about a 3-D printer should go for it, they are a great plus for making replacement parts or original printing for completing a project, just adding to the thought process. Case in point I wanted to have a small battery case for a LED lighted display using CR2450 lithium button batteries. A few minutes with CAD and then CAM software and setting up the slicer then printer and I have one. I have printed bushing for my mower, Pen Plotters, Drag knifes, scribe holder, the old "more fun than a barrel of monkeys" :Yay :HaHa
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by acourtjester »

Ok with me running my mouth,please understand you do not need to break the budget on a printer. Between $300 and $400 will get you a great one that will do many things. You can add bell and whistles like a Raspberry Pi to run it remotely with WiFi.
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

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acourtjester wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:27 pm Ok with me running my mouth,please understand you do not need to break the budget on a printer. Between $300 and $400 will get you a great one that will do many things. You can add bell and whistles like a Raspberry Pi to run it remotely.
I guess that is possible. I really do not want to get something that needs to be Frankenstein'd together via endless upgrades and aftermarket add-ons to BECOME what I could just BUY for a higher price.

I figure a good starter model should cost between $1,000.00 and $2,000.00. The others are just toys.

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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

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if you can find a raspberry pi..... for octopi
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by adbuch »

acourtjester wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:27 pm Ok with me running my mouth,please understand you do not need to break the budget on a printer. Between $300 and $400 will get you a great one that will do many things. You can add bell and whistles like a Raspberry Pi to run it remotely with WiFi.
Very much agree Tom! No need to break the bank just to buy a 3D printer. My Voxel MP3 cost under $400 and it is no toy. I hear all kinds of excuses why not to do something. But the story continues. If nothing else can make for entertainment for some of the folks. No matter big or small, knowledge and proficiency with solid modeling software will be a prerequisite here.
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

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3D printing seems ever changing so saying you want a finished 100% complete item that you never do anything to is probably not ever going to cut it.

Like others have said the $400 mark is good and not a toy {sure you can make lots of carp with it haha} but they really do work + give you an idea of what your needs really are.

When I'm waiting 17 hours for a print I get a little nervous.

I would like a dual extruder setup (dual nozzle, IDEX, carrot feeder, 2 in 1, etc etc) to be able to do what David seems to do with his IDEX by printing support in PLA and then just soaking them in water to remove the support.

I have never had an urge for colour prints of objects in more than 1 colour. Sure I change colours but I try to tie that in with the end of a roll and I do more black than anything else (everything looks good in black :) ..... saves guessing ...

Yup I'm sure it will lead to some interesting posts (like setting up to get your first layer just the right height..... not to thin and not to high).

Prusa are a bit of a standard in 3d printers, I would have said that they were probably one of the first or one of the first with a mass following (nope ,no owned one sorry zero experiance)
https://www.prusa3d.com/

Creality who make the Ender (and many others) {I have a CR10S V2 in frame size, but it's about to loose almost everything but the frame in upgrades shortly}, and are probably one of the most well known, I would have said that they were one of the first really low cost mass marketed chinese models on the market and it's probably most peoples 1st machine {again my only machine}
https://www.creality.com/

Ultimaker were the first 3d printer that I ever heard about someone having.... he had one, loved it and I simply could not afford one (probably 8 years ago?)
They develop the Cura 3d slicer that I use, I like it, never used anything else and it's free + updated regularly
https://ultimaker.com/
Ultimaker is probably my 3d printer equivalent of PlasmaCam.... it comes in a box and it just works + owners seem to love them..... NOTE: I've never owned one and simply can't afford one but they look nice. But I can get the benefit if Cura slicer for free and it works and it's slick etc.

Yes I am sure there are a lot of other printers about, but those are probably the "original" or long time running ones that I know about.

EDIT: OOPS!!
I forgot about the RepRap which was I believe the first hobbist 3d printer (just saw it on the Ultimaker time line and jogged my memory..... I remember seeing those and guys seeking out bits of rod etc to building one printer to make parts for the next etc etc.....

here are some memory lane images:

I remember seeing the Darwin and the Mendel and when I first saw the Prusa (I thought I just cannot see the point of 3d printers they will never catch on other than for making cubes and plastic blocks etc, no strength etc etc...... now mine gets a fair bit of use and just makes "stuff".... "stuff" I didn't even know I needed! :HaHa
https://reprap.org/wiki/RepRap_Options
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by adbuch »

Great synopsis of some of the most popular cost effective printers. Mine are both manufactured by FlashForge, but I must admit that I looked at most of the ones you mention before settling on my particular choices.
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by robertspark »

they do look nice and similar to the ultimaker offering (just arrives in a box, plug it in and go).
https://www.flashforgeshop.com/product/ ... der?cID=63
or at least as close as possible to that and I guess similar to the plasmacam .... it just works.
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by adbuch »

Yes - pretty much "Plug'n Play" for the Flashforge printers I have. Just put in the filament, calibrate, and ready to start printing. I was/am very happy with the Voxel, and the only reason I bought the Creator 3 pro was for the dual independent extruders. Had there been a simple way to modify the Voxel to add the second independent extruder, I would have seriously considered doing so. The Creator 3 does have the added benefit that it can print two copies at once using the left and right extruders. So this cuts the print time in half (per part) for more efficient printing timewise if printing multiples of the same part - which I do on occasion.

The Plasmacam "just works" once it is set up, calibrated, and running. But it comes in a crate in pieces and does require quite a bit of assembly time. They do supply a Video Manual which shows step-by-step how to assemble, calibrate, etc. I probably spent 20 hours or more putting my first one together. I was in no hurry and it is fun to do. But with the help of a friend, I assembles my second one in under 2 hours from crate to running. The experience from the first one was very helpful. And then there is a whole learning curve for the Design Edge software. But that can be fun as well.

Flashforge supplies their own free slicer, and so far I have been very happy with the results. There was an instance on a recent part where I would have liked to move the "seam" to a different location on the part - but not doable with the Flashforge slicer. There are others with greater flexibility which would allow this, but as I recall these may have required modifications to the Flashforge firmware and I really didn't want to get into that right now - I've got too many other things on my to-do list that require more immediate attention.

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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

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Okay, done! I just ordered the CreatBot D600 PRO 3D printer. It will be delivered around September 8th or so. They gave me a great price, with easy financing, and I will probably pay it off in the next six months or so anyway, although it is a 5 year lease if I want to drag it out.

It is a bit scary to jump into something like this, but I decided that rather than buying the small Wal-Mart printer, then moving up to a $400+ printer, then up to a $1,000+ printer and so forth, I would just buy the one I would ultimately end up with anyway.

Now to download (buy? :roll: ) Fusion 360, and start the learning process. I know three people who are adept at 3D designs, so if I want to start quickly, I can just ask (pay?) them to make the designs for me until I learn the software, to give me a kick start.


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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by ROKCRLER »

Holy crap Joe... that this is a beast! Im over here looking at entry level printers and here you go jumping all in.. Looking forward to cool creations.
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by robertspark »

wow that is a lot of printer.

fusion 360 is (,still) free for hobbists
https://www.autodesk.co.uk/products/fusion-360/personal


......or.....
you could just learn freecad....
https://www.freecadweb.org/
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

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I tend to dive in head first, and figure things out afterward. The thought with this printer, is that I want to redesign things like the rear luggage on Goldwing motorcycles and other touring motorcycles, CanAm Spyders, and boats, etc. I want to make aftermarket compartments that are LARGER, and more functional than what Honda came out with when they made the bikes.

There are many other things I will get involved in, but FIRST I need to learn Fusion 360, or learn the SolidWorks software that has been sitting on one of my PCs for nearly ten years now. I have begun the training exercises several times, but something ALWAYS gets in the way, and as you know ... if I learn something and do not stick with it, what I HAVE LEARNED is completely lost a couple of months later. That is why I spend time on DesignEdge every single day. If I walked away from the program for six months, it would be like the first day I ever saw the software again, even though I have made some 400 training videos on HOW to use the software. It is a condition I live with, and it dictates my life to a great degree.

As a matter of fact, if I don't log into this forum every couple of days, I forget the login name and password, and I have to check the DATA vault on my phone to remind me. It will never change or improve, so I have learned to deal with it.

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Last edited by Joe Jones on Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by robertspark »

look at printing in ASA as it is UV stabilised and is weather resistant.

use pla / petg for your prototypes (cheaper plus less difficult to print)

ASA is not available in many colours but you can always paint and epoxy coat it for added strength
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by Joe Jones »

Thank you Robert! I have to get up to speed on the various materials. Are any of them clear or clear translucent?

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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by robertspark »

petg is naturally translucent but it is available in many colours

https://www.simplify3d.com/support/mate ... uide/petg/

https://www.simplify3d.com/support/materials-guide/asa/

or the general index page here, very much worth a skim read. your machine should have no probs with any of them..... just get the first layer down

https://www.simplify3d.com/support/materials-guide/

here is an example of natural petg
https://shop.fillamentum.com/products/petg-natural


ASA is I think naturally grey
https://www.google.com/search?q=asa+fil ... l5q4BQ_5:0

I have only seen ASA in grey , black and Matt blue
I have yet to try asa
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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by Joe Jones »

Thank you. I have no time at the moment, but after Labor Day Weekend, I shall wander into the wonderful world of FILAMENTS!

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Re: I am Considering a 3D printer

Post by acourtjester »

Joe a little helpful info, when dealing with filaments because of the different temps it helps to setup different slicers templates for each. Slicers are like a CAM programs in that you can have them setup to do a different templates dependent on the filament requirements. I have one for each filament type that I use.
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