Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

All topics related to bending, forming, notching, drilling, saw cutting, etc.
Post Reply
motoguy
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:05 pm
Location: Central MO, USA

Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by motoguy »

I've got a customer that's going to want a 14ga (approx 14" wide) panel with a 90 degree, 1/2" radius bend. I recall seeing someone using a fast bending jig on their key hangers, but I can't find the video at the moment. I'll do some more looking in the morning, but in the meantime, I'm looking for ideas on how to quickly, accurately, and repeatably bend this panel. I'll be doing 100 or so of them at a time. I know manual will be annoying, but I figure 14ga is light enough that a manual bender is probably the way to go for now.

From what I remember of the key hanger video, I'll be looking at a roller that bends/levers over another roller, and I'll need to add a stop get a consistent 90 degree bend while allowing for springback. I'm thinking a pair of 1" conveyor/material rollers (or 1" pipe, with bearings inserted), with the proper offset/radius arm for the bend lever.

I'm tired and need to go to bed tonight, but I thought I'd throw this up in case someone has a genius idea tonight. :)
Bulltear 6x12 w/ Proton Z axis & watertable
CommandCNC/Linux w/ Ohmic & HyT options
Hypertherm Powermax 85 w/ machine torch
Solidworks, Coreldraw X7, Inkscape, Sheetcam
Shane Warnick
3.5 Star Member
3.5 Star Member
Posts: 563
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:03 pm

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by Shane Warnick »

I would think, for repeatable results, and ease of use, some type of guillotine style bender would work. You don't specify how much material will be on both sides of the bend, so that may or may not be a factor in design, but if you basically made a manual press brake style bender, it would be the same every time. You could just use 1" pipe for the bottom dies (actually, 3/4 or 1/2", or even angle iron would work, however the pipe would require less effort since its a smoother transition and surface) and then, obviously, 1" pipe for the top die. One thing I would add is a straight edge, or pair of contact points on one side or the other, so you can quickly index the sheet into the bender so that it's square. Then you just have to make sure your contact point is in the right place (it under the top die where it needs to be) and move the top die down. I would use a piece of pipe, with some cams on it, to drive the top die down. One on each end, maybe one in the middle, run a rod through the pipe to each end of the vertical guides for the top die, and put a LONG handle on it. Add a bolt / nut adjustable stop, I would put one on both ends to account for flex, and bend away. You could make the handle removable or in sections, so it's easier to store when not in use. Use some flat strap, prob 3/8" min for the top die (don't want any deflection) with the pipe (or half of it at least) welded on the bottom, some cold roll rod and pipe for pins / guides on each end of the top die, maybe a couple of return springs somewhere to keep the die open when you are inserting / removing the piece to bend. I would leave some tabs on each end of the bottom die, with a couple holes, so I could hang it when not in use, and either bolt or clamp it to the top of the fab table when I was using it. When you are done take the handle off, hang it on the wall with the bender, or under the table etc until next time.

The problem I see with using the style bender most people use on key hooks etc (where you do one at a time) is keeping it straight over 14" of material while you roll it over / bend the sheet. 14" of 14g aint gonna bent as easy as you are thinking either, or at least my experience tell me prob not. With the style described above, you can make the handle 4' if need be, and pull it down to hold the material, then move out on the handle, and bend it down to the stops. With adjustable stops and proper top and bottom die spacing, you can prob get a range of 0-115 degrees of bend, give or take a few.

If you aren't sure what the hell I'm talking about, PM me and we can talk on the phone. Might also google air bending for some info on minimum bottom die width, how to figure bend allowances for over bending / spring back etc. The fabricator .com has some great articles.

Anyways, I think if it was mine, I would spend 4-5 hours on a Saturday making a tool to do it right and nice quickly, especially if you are going to be doing 100 at a time, and many orders over the next few months / years. Then you can add $1 a bend or whatever to the price, and it will pay for itself quickly.

Shane
motoguy
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:05 pm
Location: Central MO, USA

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by motoguy »

Shane,

I was considering something along the lines of this (but shorter):

Image
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/built-c ... 30661.html

More of a radius brake apparatus.

It seems to me you're describing something more like this:

Image
Image

I've got a Harbor Freight 20t press brake, as well as the SWAG Offroad press brake:

Image

finger brake:
Image

and flat top plate:
Image
Image

Here is drawing of the plate I'll be cutting, and then need to bend/powdercoat. The blue dotted line is the centerline of the bend radius.
home unit chassis plate.JPG
I planned to run a guide along the rear and side, in order to repeatably place the plate. Once lined up (flush with rear and side guides), then brake it over. It seemed that a radius brake type apparatus (along these lines: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/thre ... ke.636207/) with bracing and a nice leverage arm (as he's mocking up in this photo:

Image)

would allow rapid, repeatable bending. The HF press /SWAG dies are so SLOW to use, as-is. I'm sure it'd be a little more tolerable with an air over hydraulic jack. With the radius brake, it's easy for me to see how the top ("unbent") portion of the plate is held flat, while the bent portion is rotated, until it's at a 90. I'm not sure how to ensure I get repeatable 90 bends with the press brake version.

You currently do not have access to download this file.
To gain download access for DXF, SVG & other files Click Here

Bulltear 6x12 w/ Proton Z axis & watertable
CommandCNC/Linux w/ Ohmic & HyT options
Hypertherm Powermax 85 w/ machine torch
Solidworks, Coreldraw X7, Inkscape, Sheetcam
Shane Warnick
3.5 Star Member
3.5 Star Member
Posts: 563
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:03 pm

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by Shane Warnick »

If you use the press brake version, you just need to add an adjustable stop, both for the down portion, as well as the up portion. Once you know how far down to go in order to get the desired bend, you set the stop. Then set the stop on the return to limit the stroke return when you release the part. That will speed up the process some, as you aren't having to move the jack as far each time.

I still think the effort required to bend 11" of 14g is going to be considerably more than you are anticipating, especially when you are talking about doing 100 of them at a time. Personally, if you already had a press brake, I would modify it, even if it meant buying an air over hydraulic jack. I can step on a pedal or squeeze a lever with a lot less effort than I can pull a lever up to bend the sheet, 100 times in a row.

Now, I am not saying your way won't work, I just think it's going to be a little more work than you realize, and in the long run, may be somewhat tiresome.

Let us know what you come up with and how it works.

Shane
motoguy
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:05 pm
Location: Central MO, USA

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by motoguy »

Shane Warnick wrote:If you use the press brake version, you just need to add an adjustable stop, both for the down portion, as well as the up portion. Once you know how far down to go in order to get the desired bend, you set the stop. Then set the stop on the return to limit the stroke return when you release the part. That will speed up the process some, as you aren't having to move the jack as far each time.

I still think the effort required to bend 11" of 14g is going to be considerably more than you are anticipating, especially when you are talking about doing 100 of them at a time. Personally, if you already had a press brake, I would modify it, even if it meant buying an air over hydraulic jack. I can step on a pedal or squeeze a lever with a lot less effort than I can pull a lever up to bend the sheet, 100 times in a row.

Now, I am not saying your way won't work, I just think it's going to be a little more work than you realize, and in the long run, may be somewhat tiresome.

Let us know what you come up with and how it works.

Shane
Thanks Shane. I purchased an air over hydraulic jack this morning, to replace the existing hydraulic unit on the press. You've got infinitely more experience, so I think it's in my best interest to listen to it. :)
Bulltear 6x12 w/ Proton Z axis & watertable
CommandCNC/Linux w/ Ohmic & HyT options
Hypertherm Powermax 85 w/ machine torch
Solidworks, Coreldraw X7, Inkscape, Sheetcam
Shane Warnick
3.5 Star Member
3.5 Star Member
Posts: 563
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:03 pm

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by Shane Warnick »

FWIW, in my opinion, that was the way to go. A couple of considerations, when you make your bottom dies make them so you can adjust the width, that way you can use adjust them for different thickness' of material to be bent.

I think with the addition of the air over hydraulic jack, you have increased the capability of your press as a production tool in your shop, and will, more than likely, find more and more things you can use it for. I catch myself all the time thinking I need to get the torch and heat something to bend it, then walk by the press otw to get the torch, and just shake my head. I can bend something and be done before I could get the torch rolled out of the corner and build a fire on the end of it.

I made a removable set of bottom dies, that have interchangeable plates, so I can slip one bottom die plate out and swap in a different bottom die, without having to remove the knife and guides / return springs etc from the press. They are heavy, and not something I would want to do 10 times a day, but man it's nice when you need them.

Shane
gsi
2 Star Member
2 Star Member
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:56 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL
Contact:

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by gsi »

Go ahead and find a foot operated air valve. The one that comes with the harbor freight air jacks doesn't last. Mine took less than a week to start leaking. You want a foot pedal anyway so you can use your hands to hold the parts, etc. We did the air jack and the foot pedal recently. Bent 34 parts with 9 bends each and 34 parts with 7 bends each the other day. That ads up to a lot of bends quickly (544). Don't get me wrong, it's still no production press brake but it's decent for what it is.
motoguy
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:05 pm
Location: Central MO, USA

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by motoguy »

Sent the first 27 parts out yesterday. Yeah, Shane, the press brake (air over hydraulic) was DEFINITELY the way to go. I went through several test bends in order to learn that I misaligned my SWAG brake when welding it up. I was getting one side of the plate about .012 longer than the other side. Found the difference, and offset one of my back stops to make up for it. Parts are now coming out square. I'm remembering (writing down) the offset for now, but eventually I'll find the cause and square it up.

I'll shoot some pictures tomorrow. I got a 19.25" length of 4" .75" steel, and welded a 1" steel rod to the bottom. It works really, really well.

Yes, I'll be adding a foot valve soon. I've got a valve from the TP Tools DIY blast cabinet kit I ordered. I need to get a blast cabinet built, and I think I'm going to use a metered valve setup, vs the dual-tube siphon TP setup. I'll just use an on/off pedal and electric solenoid for the blast cabinet.
Last edited by motoguy on Thu May 26, 2016 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bulltear 6x12 w/ Proton Z axis & watertable
CommandCNC/Linux w/ Ohmic & HyT options
Hypertherm Powermax 85 w/ machine torch
Solidworks, Coreldraw X7, Inkscape, Sheetcam
User avatar
Capstone
4 Star Member
4 Star Member
Posts: 1015
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:42 am
Location: Washington D.C. Metro
Contact:

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by Capstone »

subscribed. I am always amazed at how many times my exact same situations come up for me in my shop that miraculous are being addressed here. Thanks Shane and Moto. I have the identical setup. HF 20Ton with the upgraded Air/Hydraulic and the SWAG HD Finger Brake. I finger brake definitely has it's shortcomings, like trying to get all of the fingers back in at once in a straight line. I gotta sit down and spend some time figuring out some hacks for that press, like the radius bender die above.
Phil
It's all relative...
CNC Metal Design
Instagram CNC Metal Design
JD Squared 4x8
HT PM45, Miller 251 MIG
motoguy
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:05 pm
Location: Central MO, USA

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by motoguy »

Pics of the radius die I made for the HF press
20160526_133158_resized.jpg
20160526_133222_resized.jpg
Also made this adjustable bottom die, but I've not used it.
20160526_133255_resized.jpg

You currently do not have access to download this file.
To gain download access for DXF, SVG & other files Click Here

Last edited by motoguy on Thu May 26, 2016 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bulltear 6x12 w/ Proton Z axis & watertable
CommandCNC/Linux w/ Ohmic & HyT options
Hypertherm Powermax 85 w/ machine torch
Solidworks, Coreldraw X7, Inkscape, Sheetcam
User avatar
Capstone
4 Star Member
4 Star Member
Posts: 1015
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:42 am
Location: Washington D.C. Metro
Contact:

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by Capstone »

motoguy wrote:Pics of the radius die I made for the HF press
Looks pretty simple. I'm definitely gonna make one since I have a customer that wants this on a big job. Do you add/change anything for the bottom die?
Phil
It's all relative...
CNC Metal Design
Instagram CNC Metal Design
JD Squared 4x8
HT PM45, Miller 251 MIG
Shane Warnick
3.5 Star Member
3.5 Star Member
Posts: 563
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:03 pm

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by Shane Warnick »

Motoguy, 0.012" is pretty close, I bet that's such a small offset on the knife that you will be hard pressed to find it. Probably just pulled a tad one way when it was welded up. 12 thousandths is good enough for the girls I go with for sure. Now, if that's a typo, and it's really 0.12" or 120 thou, then I would chase it. If not, leave it. You know what the arch enemy of good is don't you? His name is better. Which is where you rarely end up when chasing stuff like that.

Looks like a nice set up, only one thing I would consider changing. I like the arrangement for your backstop, but you may want to consider a re-design if you start doing much thick stuff, or heavy pieces. You will knock that small one out of line with the added mass of larger plates hitting it over and over. It won't move but a hundred thou or so each time you whack it, but after 200 parts it will be off. You might consider making a stop from 1/4" plate, and drill holes to slip over the rods with a mag drill so they are a pretty snug fit. Then add a couple washers between the plate and the locking collars, and use 2 collars on the front side, and at least 3 on the back. I know it seems like overkill, but it's easier to adjust and lock it down ONCE than go back and re-do 50 parts cause you effed up the bends by 1/10". Not that I have that map or anything...........

All in all it looks like a great set up, I am glad it's working out good for you. I am sure stepping on a pedal (or squeezing an air valve) is easier than manually bending, and it's repeatable to boot.

I am leaving on vacation tomorrow afternoon, but if you hit me up next week I will post some pics of the press brake I built for my Manley Mfg. press, built back in 19 and 45 I think the tag says. Built like a tank it is. I made a plate that holds the knife and guide pins, and a top plate that holds the bottom dies, and you can slide one out and another one in no problem, and change bottom dies in about 2 minutes.

Shane
User avatar
steel 35
3.5 Star Member
3.5 Star Member
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:12 am
Location: N of Cali.

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by steel 35 »

Please do show more pictures, Shane & anyone else. I can use all the help I can get. Have a HF 20 T and non Swag finger brake :mrgreen:
Dont have stops or know what I would do with the flat plates if I had them :?:
PPL HDG 4X8
Hyp 65 duramax's
C&CNC 620-5 Ethernet
Inkscape, Solid Edge, Sheetcam, Autocad 2K
Corel X7 Student NO DXF!
EasyScriber
motoguy
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:05 pm
Location: Central MO, USA

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by motoguy »

Added this to the shop. Well, to the mechanical room downstairs...the garage is full already. Powder oven is going to another facility, and I guess I'll do all my powdercoating over there. I hate being spread out, but I'm not comfortable taking on a rent payment yet for a facility. While it may not be the most convenient or efficient, I can work with 0 overhead right now...

It's got all the fingers, I just haven't cleaned it yet, so I didn't want to put everything together. Put together just enough to make these prototypes, which should be turning into a regular production job in a month or so. That will be nice.
20161021_234303.jpg
Here are the parts. They don't show it here, but there's a "flap" bent on the back (parallel to the front face), which necessitated the box and pan brake. I had been "making it work" on a regular straight brake at a friend's shop, but that little tab pushed me over the edge...
20161017_104535.jpg

You currently do not have access to download this file.
To gain download access for DXF, SVG & other files Click Here

Bulltear 6x12 w/ Proton Z axis & watertable
CommandCNC/Linux w/ Ohmic & HyT options
Hypertherm Powermax 85 w/ machine torch
Solidworks, Coreldraw X7, Inkscape, Sheetcam
User avatar
tnbndr
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:30 pm
Location: New Berlin, WI
Contact:

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by tnbndr »

Very nice piece of equipment? Is that a 6 footer?
Model? Make?
Dennis
LDR 4x8, Scribe, DTHCIV
Hypertherm PM45, Macair Dryer
DeVilbiss Air America 6.5HP, 80Gal., 175psi, Two Stage
16.9scfm@100psi, 16.0scfm@175psi
Miller 215 MultiMatic
RW 390E Slip Roll (Powered)
AutoCAD, SheetCAM, Mach 3
http://ikescreations.com
motoguy
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:05 pm
Location: Central MO, USA

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by motoguy »

tnbndr wrote:Very nice piece of equipment? Is that a 6 footer?
Model? Make?
Grizzly G0542. 48" 12g box/pan brake. What I've read states it's only rated to 12g for 1/2 width (24"), and 14g for full width. That's fine, as 14g (or less) is my primary material for it.

I had almost convinced myself to get a B&K (Chicago) BPU-412-6, but man...$5300. Used are either worn out, damaged, or close enough to new pricing that I may as well buy new. At least, used "looking to buy now". If I had a year or two to shop, I'm sure I could find a good deal.

The B&K is top of the line, and the next tier down (Jet, etc) is right at $4k. Down further, puts you at this Grizzly model, approx $1900. IMO, the option was either "go cheap, get the Grizzly", or "buy once, cry once, get the Chicago".

Then I stumbled upon this one, and was able to pick it up for $400. Solved my dilemma.
Last edited by motoguy on Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bulltear 6x12 w/ Proton Z axis & watertable
CommandCNC/Linux w/ Ohmic & HyT options
Hypertherm Powermax 85 w/ machine torch
Solidworks, Coreldraw X7, Inkscape, Sheetcam
User avatar
tnbndr
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:30 pm
Location: New Berlin, WI
Contact:

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by tnbndr »

Then I stumbled upon this one, and was able to pick it up for $400.
That's a good buy.!!
Was he selling because he realized it wouldn't do what he wanted.??
Dennis
LDR 4x8, Scribe, DTHCIV
Hypertherm PM45, Macair Dryer
DeVilbiss Air America 6.5HP, 80Gal., 175psi, Two Stage
16.9scfm@100psi, 16.0scfm@175psi
Miller 215 MultiMatic
RW 390E Slip Roll (Powered)
AutoCAD, SheetCAM, Mach 3
http://ikescreations.com
motoguy
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
4 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:05 pm
Location: Central MO, USA

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by motoguy »

tnbndr wrote:
Then I stumbled upon this one, and was able to pick it up for $400.
That's a good buy.!!
Was he selling because he realized it wouldn't do what he wanted.??
He said he purchased it at auction about 10 years ago, and had never used it. He was making room in his shop.
Bulltear 6x12 w/ Proton Z axis & watertable
CommandCNC/Linux w/ Ohmic & HyT options
Hypertherm Powermax 85 w/ machine torch
Solidworks, Coreldraw X7, Inkscape, Sheetcam
User avatar
tnbndr
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
4.5 Star Elite Contributing Member
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:30 pm
Location: New Berlin, WI
Contact:

Re: Looking for idea on making a radius bender for 14ga sheet

Post by tnbndr »

I guess I would have bought it too, but with the intention of selling it for a profit to apply toward the Chicago!!!
Dennis
LDR 4x8, Scribe, DTHCIV
Hypertherm PM45, Macair Dryer
DeVilbiss Air America 6.5HP, 80Gal., 175psi, Two Stage
16.9scfm@100psi, 16.0scfm@175psi
Miller 215 MultiMatic
RW 390E Slip Roll (Powered)
AutoCAD, SheetCAM, Mach 3
http://ikescreations.com
Post Reply

Return to “Metal Bending, Rolling, Notching, Drilling, Saw Cutting”