michigan winter freeze protection

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58er
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michigan winter freeze protection

Post by 58er » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:08 pm

Hi, new guy here....
bought a new LDR table mid summer and love it...
have it in an unheated block building in Michigan, with winter coming , any ideas on keeping water bladder from freezing solid?
Any thoughts on just general cold (sometimes bitter cold) affects on the computer and electronics? Heating the building is obviously the best answer but may not be practical, maybe wrapping the bottom of table with welding blanket and a small electric space heater?
maybe a livestock heater in the water table?
maybe a small pond pump to keep water circulating?
I have an unheated blacksmith shop that i work in but the only thing i worry about in there is my slack tub which i keep heat trace wrapped around and is successful, but the table is much bigger than that.....
I'm sure I'm not the only person who will have to deal with this....
thanks
RG

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Re: michigan winter freeze protection

Post by djreiswig » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:38 pm

Can you put a tank heating element in the tank? Or maybe a magnetic oil pan heater.
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58er
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Re: michigan winter freeze protection

Post by 58er » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:07 am

Do you mean something like a livestock water heater?
Maybe.
Never thought of an oil pan heater.

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Re: michigan winter freeze protection

Post by djreiswig » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:57 am

I was thinking just a resistance element like in an electric water heater. You could screw it in the tank. Maybe it would get too hot. I'm not sure how low you can turn the temperature down.
A livestock heater would be ideal as they usually only heat to above freezing.
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Re: michigan winter freeze protection

Post by tnbndr » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:08 am

First off, your LDR table does not have a "bladder". It is just a metal framed storage under the cutting area. A simple great design. Not sure what size table you have but if it is a 4x8(mine) or larger it is going to take a circulating pump and heater to keep the water from freezing. Mine is in a two car garage in Wisconsin and I installed an electric heater with a thermostat that I set to 40 degrees. Much simpler, controllable and I can turn up the thermostat when I am working out there for a comfortable work environment. I hate freezing!!!!
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Re: michigan winter freeze protection

Post by acourtjester » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:05 am

Ok here I go into Inspector Gadget mode, when building my powder coating oven I used a Thermal PIN and heating elements from a stove works great.
These PID are fully adjustable as to the temperature range and switch a SSR on/off to control the temps. Not knowing the size of your water table you could use one or two oven heating elements under the table to keep the water from freezing. I would put a sheet metal box around the elements to contain the heat and maybe some fiberglass insulation over that.
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58er
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Re: michigan winter freeze protection

Post by 58er » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:36 am

My table is a 4x4.
Some great ideas

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Re: michigan winter freeze protection

Post by Larry83301 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:50 am

58er wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:08 pm
Hi, new guy here....
bought a new LDR table mid summer and love it...
have it in an unheated block building in Michigan, with winter coming , any ideas on keeping water bladder from freezing solid?
Any thoughts on just general cold (sometimes bitter cold) affects on the computer and electronics? Heating the building is obviously the best answer but may not be practical, maybe wrapping the bottom of table with welding blanket and a small electric space heater?
maybe a livestock heater in the water table?
maybe a small pond pump to keep water circulating?
I have an unheated blacksmith shop that i work in but the only thing i worry about in there is my slack tub which i keep heat trace wrapped around and is successful, but the table is much bigger than that.....
I'm sure I'm not the only person who will have to deal with this....
thanks
RG
I would use a trough heater ( not the floating one) and to circulate the water use a pond air bubblier (two stones), it brings the cold water from the bottom up. That will keep the water moving in the whole tank. Get something like whats in the pictures I attached. I live in Idaho and it sometimes gets a little chilly here ( I've seen -19 Deg), I don't have a water tank on my table BUT I have a 5500 gallon pond that has fish, I've had it freeze up to 10 inches and still had open circles so the fish can get oxy. I use two of these stones and only one pump, works great! I don't use a heater on the pond but the horse trough is another story. The trough heater keeps it around 35 doe, also have a small one for the cats. LOL
air pump.jpg
air stone.jpg
Larry

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Re: michigan winter freeze protection

Post by jimcolt » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:35 am

Just a comment: The metal tank used to raise and lower the water by air pressure in plasma cutting tables has been called a "bladder" style table for over 40 years. So bladder is a common term for these devices! Jim Colt


tnbndr wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:08 am
First off, your LDR table does not have a "bladder". It is just a metal framed storage under the cutting area. A simple great design. Not sure what size table you have but if it is a 4x8(mine) or larger it is going to take a circulating pump and heater to keep the water from freezing. Mine is in a two car garage in Wisconsin and I installed an electric heater with a thermostat that I set to 40 degrees. Much simpler, controllable and I can turn up the thermostat when I am working out there for a comfortable work environment. I hate freezing!!!!

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Re: michigan winter freeze protection

Post by DXF » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:25 pm

Move south you won't need antifreeze here! :mrgreen:

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Re: michigan winter freeze protection

Post by 58er » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:09 pm

Well, can’t really move south so that’s kinda off the plate....leaning towards the livestock heater and maybe a fireball ket skirt around the table legs with a small radiant style heater.
These are all great ideas.
Thanks for the great Input.

58er
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Re: michigan winter freeze protection

Post by 58er » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:10 pm

I meant fire blanket skirt. Hopefully no fire balls in the shop.

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Re: michigan winter freeze protection

Post by dhelfter » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:43 am

Yes, we by no means "invented" physics! We are however the only manufacturer in our price range (that I am aware of) that offers an air controlled water table.

Dan
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Re: michigan winter freeze protection

Post by TrinityFabworks » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:21 pm

I have a homebuilt 4x4 table with a couple of storage tanks below that are plumbed together and then plumbed up to the table. I live in Michigan as well and my table is in a 2 car garage that I finally insulated. Last winter I bought a long strip of heat tape from Lowes, and wrapped it around the pipes that go between the tanks and up to the table. The pipe going between the tanks is at the bottom of each tank, so it worked really well in keeping all of the water from freezing. On days of extreme temperature, I would get a little bit of ice just on the surface of the top of the water in each tank, but that was it. I kept it plugged in all winter and unplugged it in June because I forgot to do it sooner. Hope this helps

58er
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Re: michigan winter freeze protection

Post by 58er » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:06 pm

Great. Thanks

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