Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

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Locust
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Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by Locust »

My background is in CNC machining, waterjets, and welding, so I have experience with a plasma torch, part pathing and metal work in general, so I'm not a complete noob to fabrication and I don't need to focus on a machine marketed to the DIY/Maker coming into this completely green to the processes. I figure my startup budget is probably around $10k at most.

I've browsed thru a number of reviews of a few different brands of tables on this forum and it seems like everyone is happy with the machines they have and nothing stood out as especially good or bad. I guess at this point I'm leaning toward the Langmuir machines. Is there any other brands I should be looking harder at? Local Haun Welding salesman was telling me there's a guy who might have some demo machines from Lone Star in the area, but I can't find any local contact info for him and I haven't seen any pricing for their machines yet.

My other question is what size machine would be recommended to begin with? What did you start with and what did you wish you started with once you got a feel for things?
I feel like a 2x2 is going to be too small and I'm tempted to jump right in with a machine that can handle a full 4x8, but I'm aware that there are a few sizes in between depending on who's machines you're looking at. Pricing differences are significant between a 3x4 work envelope and a 4x8 and if 90% of jobs fit on a 3x4 that obviously makes a lot more sense.

Thanks for the help.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by cstroke »

CNC shop and services has a machine that's very good.
Squickman??? Spelling( Lots of fans on this site and others)
I'd say both these machines would be more bang for your buck...
I started with a 5'x10' machine and now have a 6'x12' table.
The majority of my sheets are 4'x8 or 5'x10' rarely the 6'x12' but what that size table does is makes you slide small pieces of different metals for quick cuts and you don't have to remove the project sheet.
Nesting is worth the money even though it is expensive.
Personally I would save until I bought the machine you want or you will end up doing so later and it'll cost you more.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by ROKCRLER »

I started with a Langmuir 2x2 and quickly outgrew it. I got a 4x8 thinking that's all I'll need, now i wish i would have gotten a 5x10.
I don't do a whole lot of huge cuts everyday, but when the jobs come in needing the extra width, i kick my self for not getting the bigger table.
My normal cutting envelope ranges from 8x8 to 48x50 and anywhere in between.
I'm extremely satisfied with my Dynatorch, now owned and operated by CNC Shop and Service.

Dont let your budget limit you on tables or options available for the tables, I too started with a similar budget like you but decided to sell/save a tad more for more upgrades at the time of purchase. They would have been more afterwards.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by Locust »

Thanks for the replies guys.

Another thing I should have mentioned is that at least to start I thought I would make a bunch of kitschy signage/wall art to sell on etsy or the like. Sounds like most people do a lot of contract work, but I live in a very rural state so locally there probably isn't going to be the potential that some areas have for job shop work.

Is it safe to assume the outside work is the driving factor in getting something like a 5x10 machine?
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by adbuch »

I think for a small home shop hobby business where you are creating and selling your own smaller items as you have just mentioned, you don't need anything larger than 4x4. I would recommend staying within your stated budget if you can while you test out the market.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by djreiswig »

A lot of the parts on a smaller table are the same as on larger table. Same electronics & motors, computer. Basically just some more steel.
I went with a 4x8 mainly because of being able to handle full sheets without cutting. You can index cuts if you are needing to cut a part longer than your table, but if you are doing anything thick, that will be a challenge. If you're going to cut mostly small artsy stuff in sheet metal, then you might be fine with a small setup. Keep in mind, if you have the only table in your area, and word gets out, you might have all sorts of jobs come through the door. I frequently cut sheets of 1/2", and have cut some parts from 3/4" & 1". I'm not sure if you already have a cutter, but if not, I would recommend getting a quality one to be start with. It will make all the difference in the quality of your parts.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by adbuch »

Locust wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:55 pm I figure my startup budget is probably around $10k at most.

Does your budget of $10K include plasma cutter, compressor, dryer, air lines, wiring, etc. - or it the $10K only for the table?
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by Locust »

adbuch wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:34 pm
Locust wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:55 pm I figure my startup budget is probably around $10k at most.

Does your budget of $10K include plasma cutter, compressor, dryer, air lines, wiring, etc. - or it the $10K only for the table?
David
I have a compressor, I'd still need a dryer, torch and table. The budget is primarily for the primary things, the torch and table. I'm dipping into my retirement funds early to fund this. It's hasn't been worth a damn for the last 20 years, it's not going to be worth a damn in 20 more so I might as well use it to try to get some different income streams going. If I really wanted to go all in I would have probably $35K to work with, but I'd rather not go all in. If I go over budget by a couple thousand, no big deal, but I don't want to break the bank.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by Locust »

djreiswig wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:19 pm A lot of the parts on a smaller table are the same as on larger table. Same electronics & motors, computer. Basically just some more steel.
I went with a 4x8 mainly because of being able to handle full sheets without cutting. You can index cuts if you are needing to cut a part longer than your table, but if you are doing anything thick, that will be a challenge. If you're going to cut mostly small artsy stuff in sheet metal, then you might be fine with a small setup. Keep in mind, if you have the only table in your area, and word gets out, you might have all sorts of jobs come through the door. I frequently cut sheets of 1/2", and have cut some parts from 3/4" & 1". I'm not sure if you already have a cutter, but if not, I would recommend getting a quality one to be start with. It will make all the difference in the quality of your parts.
There's a fab shop probably 3 miles from me with plasma and laser cutters and a waterjet job shop 2 miles from me. I don't expect anyone to be beating down my door, but I could see, with word getting out, smaller jobs coming thru from people who don't want to wait to get fit into a large schedule of production and contract jobs. I also have my existing network of past customers who have come to me at my previous jobs for stuff like hydraulic cylinder pins that have odd shaped heads - heavy equipment and refuse removal stuff. I used to farm the tabbed heads out to a HVAC company that bought a waterjet for cutting stainless ducting but still had a lot of free time on the jet.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by cutnweld »

I personally would not go smaller than 5x10. You always wish/"need" bigger. a 2x2 table will require you to rip any full sheets before fitting them on. My theory is the bigger the sheet, the less scrap you have left over.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by Locust »

My first boat was a 38ft 15,000lb houseboat and I still got 2ft-itis and wanted a bigger one. I get that you always wish you had a little bigger, but also, now I have a 38ft boat taking up more space in my yard than a small apartment. I'm trying to practice some self restraint and dip my toe in the water before I dive right in. Like I mentioned above, there's a plasma/laser shop and a waterjet shop within a few miles so it's not like I'm creating a new market here. I don't know what kind of outside work I might be able to pull and I'm focused on what I can make and sell online "artistically" or whatever as a secondary income source. Etsy sales, which means products need to be small enough to ship.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by ROKCRLER »

Based on your new info, the crossfire pro would fit the bill as a good entry table that is capable of producing awesome pieces.
That would leave enough in your budget for upgrades of other equipment.
I too have a laser shop in town and often use them for parts i cannot fit on the table.
Definitely get a good plasma unit

From experience, if you start off with a say, 2x2 table like i did, its guaranteed you'll regret not going up at least to the next size up, in my case i went 4x8 because thats what my budget allowed.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by adbuch »

I very much agree with Rokcrler on this. As I mentioned previously - Langmuir would be my recommendation as well. They actually have a pretty good resale value - so even if you started out with the 2x2 - there is most definitely a market if and when you decide to trade up. But given your stated budget I would go with the Crossfire Pro. At under $3k for table alone, that leaves you room for a nice Hypertherm cutter, air dryer, possibly some software, computer, etc.

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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by Locust »

ROKCRLER wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:15 pm Based on your new info, the crossfire pro would fit the bill as a good entry table that is capable of producing awesome pieces.
That would leave enough in your budget for upgrades of other equipment.
I too have a laser shop in town and often use them for parts i cannot fit on the table.
Definitely get a good plasma unit

From experience, if you start off with a say, 2x2 table like i did, its guaranteed you'll regret not going up at least to the next size up, in my case i went 4x8 because thats what my budget allowed.
I've got my eye on a Hypertherm 65. That's what I've had available to me at my last 2 jobs and I've never had a complaint about it. Those shops refused to dry their air and I still had a decent experience with the machine. Again, being that I can't load anything I can't lift myself, a bigger plasma may not be of any benefit.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by Locust »

adbuch wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:30 pm I very much agree with Rokcrler on this. As I mentioned previously - Langmuir would be my recommendation as well. They actually have a pretty good resale value - so even if you started out with the 2x2 - there is most definitely a market if and when you decide to trade up. But given your stated budget I would go with the Crossfire Pro. At under $3k for table alone, that leaves you room for a nice Hypertherm cutter, air dryer, possibly some software, computer, etc.

David
Would you say that even at the 4x3 size a THC is a smart purchase?

*edit
The photos on the langmuir site show the crossfire pro with a hand torch clamped on. Would it be better to run a machine torch and keep a hand torch for hand work? Would it be easier to disconnect at the plasma unit vs unclamping from the table?
Last edited by Locust on Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by adbuch »

Locust wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:35 pm
adbuch wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:30 pm I very much agree with Rokcrler on this. As I mentioned previously - Langmuir would be my recommendation as well. They actually have a pretty good resale value - so even if you started out with the 2x2 - there is most definitely a market if and when you decide to trade up. But given your stated budget I would go with the Crossfire Pro. At under $3k for table alone, that leaves you room for a nice Hypertherm cutter, air dryer, possibly some software, computer, etc.

David
Would you say that even at the 4x3 size a THC is a smart purchase?
Yes - most definitely.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by djreiswig »

Locust wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:33 pm I've got my eye on a Hypertherm 65. That's what I've had available to me at my last 2 jobs and I've never had a complaint about it. Those shops refused to dry their air and I still had a decent experience with the machine. Again, being that I can't load anything I can't lift myself, a bigger plasma may not be of any benefit.
Keep in mind, the new PowerMax 65's are now the sync model with the one piece cartridge. Not quite the same animal as the older ones.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by adbuch »

djreiswig wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:54 pm

Keep in mind, the new PowerMax 65's are now the sync model with the one piece cartridge. Not quite the same animal as the older ones.
:Like :Like :Like
I had typed in the same thing - that only the 45xp was a non-sync model now. The 65, 85, etc. are all the newer Sync models with the expensive one piece consumable cartridges. I was suggesting looking for a good deal on a used Hytertherm 65 or 85. There was just a Hypertherm Powermax 85 in nice condition that sold here in the classified section for around $2500. Justin has apparently deleted that post after is sold. It went to one of the members here.

I don't know what happened to my post. Perhaps I forgot to hit the submit button.

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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by Locust »

adbuch wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:58 pm
djreiswig wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:54 pm

Keep in mind, the new PowerMax 65's are now the sync model with the one piece cartridge. Not quite the same animal as the older ones.
:Like :Like :Like
I had typed in the same thing - that only the 45xp was a non-sync model now. The 65, 85, etc. are all the newer Sync models with the expensive one piece consumable cartridges. I was suggesting looking for a good deal on a used Hytertherm 65 or 85. There was just a Hypertherm Powermax 85 in nice condition that sold here in the classified section for around $2500. Justin has apparently deleted that post after is sold. It went to one of the members here.

I don't know what happened to my post. Perhaps I forgot to hit the submit button.

David
I didn't realize there was a change. Thanks for the heads up. Just did a local craigslist search, nothing but chinese junk listed there. I'll keep my eye out for an older machine.
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by adbuch »

If you will be doing mostly smaller signage and artwork from the thinner material - say under 1/4" thickness - then I would personally go for the 45xp. It is rated to cut up to 5/8" thick steel - not continuously, but keeping within the rated duty cycle. I expect a new 45xp is about half the price of the Sync65. Others will say to get the 85 just in case you need to cut 1" + thickness material. But your local shops can handle those jobs, and leave you to concentrate on your signage business. I personally own and use both the 45xp and Powermax 85. They are both great cutters - I use the FineCut consumables for all of my 10 ga. and thinner cutting. There were some issues with the Sync FineCut cartridges which I know Hypertherm is working on. But the Duramax FineCuts work great - that's what I use.

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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

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I generally use 14 ga. cr for most of my artistic pieces. I am cutting on my 4x4 table using Powermax 85 with FineCuts. I could use the 45xp, but I have been using that one more for my rotary pipe cutter. I am using the hand torch on both of my machines with no problems. I understand that the machine torch may be easier to align to vertical, but I have had no problems using the hand torch for cnc. I get great cuts now, and I doubt that switching to a machine torch would make much improvement, if any for the work I do. Of course if you are buying new, then the ideal setup may be having both machine and hand torch for manual cutting.

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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by adbuch »

I was wrong. The Sync65 is only about 50% more cost than the 45xp - both with hand torch.
David
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by djreiswig »

adbuch wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:58 pmThere was just a Hypertherm Powermax 85 in nice condition that sold here in the classified section for around $2500. Justin has apparently deleted that post after is sold. It went to one of the members here.
That was me. :Yay
It was too good of a deal to pass up. I call it Sync Insurance. 8-)
I was wondering why the post disappeared so quickly. I was going to show someone the pictures, and, POOF!!, gone. :shock:
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by adbuch »

djreiswig wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:20 pm
adbuch wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:58 pmThere was just a Hypertherm Powermax 85 in nice condition that sold here in the classified section for around $2500. Justin has apparently deleted that post after is sold. It went to one of the members here.
That was me. :Yay
It was too good of a deal to pass up. I call it Sync Insurance. 8-)
I was wondering why the post disappeared so quickly. I was going to show someone the pictures, and, POOF!!, gone. :shock:
Need to ask Justin (moderator).
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Re: Want to start a side business with a plasma table and I've got a few questions

Post by adbuch »

Or maybe the seller asked to have it pulled because he had so much interest in it from other potential buyers. He may have sold it too cheap.
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