Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

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djreiswig
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Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

Post by djreiswig »

Get a free sync cartridge if you buy the adapter.
https://www.hypertherm.com/en-US/landin ... promotion/
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Re: Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

Post by weldguy »

I think there just trying to get people onto these cartridges. I would never switch and hope my "old school" Powermax never dies.
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Re: Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

The SYNC system is for those who can't SYNC their mind with the picture in the owners manual showing what part goes where.. Why would you allow a person that is that out of SYNC next too a 100K CNC table? I'd bet a shiny new quarter this is part of the reason that Jim Colt is no longer with Hypertherm. Have they fixed the OHMIC problems people were having yet??
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Re: Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

Post by djreiswig »

SegoMan DeSigns wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:12 pm The SYNC system is for those who can't SYNC their mind with the picture in the owners manual showing what part goes where.. Why would you allow a person that is that out of SYNC next too a 100K CNC table? I'd bet a shiny new quarter this is part of the reason that Jim Colt is no longer with Hypertherm. Have they fixed the OHMIC problems people were having yet??
The SYNC is for those who have extra money to throw in the trash.

I think I saw a post here that they redesigned the cartridge to fix the ohmic issue. Somebody bought some and got the old style. Evidently Hypertherm hasn't recalled the cartridges with the issue, but I guess you can exchange them for the new style.

I bought a used 85 a while back as a backup for my 65, so I can stay outta SYNC. :HaHa
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Re: Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

Post by rdj357 »

SegoMan DeSigns wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:12 pmHave they fixed the OHMIC problems people were having yet??
Yes. They did recall all the original FineCut cartridges but they sell through dealers so some of them ignored the monthly fliers and didn't exchange stock. The fault there is not with Hypertherm. In fact, if anyone has any of the original cartridges that are new or even used up, they will 100% warranty them for you if you take/send them back to your supplier.

I have the adapter - the SYNC is very convenient but will absolutely add to the cost per cut inch. Dramatically? No. Worth it for the small improvements? Nah, I don't think so but it's not some boogey man I'm afraid of. I'd happily buy a new SYNC tomorrow if I needed a machine LONG before I considered any other brand.
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Re: Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

Post by AREA »

I use my consumables to the bitter end. When there no good for making quality cuts on the table they get handed down to the hand torch for hacking things apart. I typically use 2 nozzles to every electrode, and replace my o-rings and swirl ring annually. For me the Sync would likely double or triple my annual consumable costs. For a business larger and more profitable than me they likely wouldn't care, just write it off, but money is tight, I will explore another brand next time around if that unfortunate day ever comes.
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Re: Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

X2 on squeezing ever penny out of them:

Consumable start our new for nested sheets of parts, then downgraded to one of a kind every now & then parts and then to the hand torch.

I posted the following on the original "Not So" SmartSYNC release thread:

Here is my rough cost break down on 65A consumables (I normally run 2 nozzles for every electrode)

$6
$6
$8
--
$20 / 2 = $10 per change avg Vs $53 for the SYNC setup So that is $43 savings per change out.


If you change your consumables twice per:

Month that's $86 x 12 = $1,032 / yr
Week $86 x 52 = $4,472 / yr
Day $86 x 5 x 52 = $22,360 / yr

The new system can be compared to the Lotto as it is a tax on those who are really poor at math..

Keep your eyes on the classifieds for the older units.
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Re: Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

Post by rdj357 »

SegoMan DeSigns wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:32 pm
Here is my rough cost break down on 65A consumables (I normally run 2 nozzles for every electrode)

$6
$6
$8
--
$20 / 2 = $10 per change avg Vs $53 for the SYNC setup So that is $43 savings per change out.
How many cut inches per change do you get approximately?
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Re: Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

rdj357 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:21 pm
SegoMan DeSigns wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:32 pm
Here is my rough cost break down on 65A consumables (I normally run 2 nozzles for every electrode)

$6
$6
$8
--
$20 / 2 = $10 per change avg Vs $53 for the SYNC setup So that is $43 savings per change out.
How many cut inches per change do you get approximately?
That is a really good question. I have never tracked it :?: :?: I know I did one sheet of 3/4" with 1 set of 85 amps and still had a lot of life left in them

IMG_20200930_140901608.jpg
IMG_20200919_144923764_HDR.jpg

The Big table has THC The 2x2 does not. but I still get a good service life on both of them..
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Re: Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

Post by cutnweld »

I recently built a trailer, You can see it on the project gallery elsewhere on this forum. I cut the 1/2" flanges on a used tip and electrode. No idea how many inches they had when I started cutting. I put on 2016 inches on the used set yet. How many inches do you figure for a set Robert? I have a brand new unopened Powermax 85 with machine torch and CPC that I may consider selling as I am considering a MAXPRO 200.
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Re: Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

By the time I finished harvesting that piece of 3/4" I had less than a 5 gal bucket of scrap. I think the thing that got to me most over the SYNC system is they had a perfect system and they fixed it till it wasn't. The ability to buy another machine to go with your existing 3 units and share the same consumables is gone.

Watching the 105 cutting 1" plate and turning them into your projects is a site to behold when you think back to how you use to do things prior to the words CNC appearing in your shop.
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Re: Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

Post by rdj357 »

I think it's fair to say that the number of pierces and in what material thickness are probably the best factors to consider BUT what typically drives a pricing structure is either cut inches or its closely related brother, time so that's why I was curious. Obviously the thicker the material, the shorter the life as measured in pierces and/or inches but maybe not in time.

As for estimates - probably like the rule of thumbs which is that almost everyone has two - on 14 gauge with FineCut, I expect a range of a few thousand pierces and 8-10,000 inches. That number is different in the humid summers of OK even with a refrigerated air dryer than it is in the dry winter so I just do a lot of guessing. I'm also very guilty in my old age of cutting a wide range of different things with a handful of different sets of consumables and not knowing for sure, for instance, how much 1/4" that 45a set has cut compared to how much 10 gauge and that makes it hard to measure.

My thing overall is this - I've been self-employed for just short of 30 years. No one likes change. Ever. Even if they come to love it later, at first it is different, untried, new, and annoying. As a function of cost per cut inch of material, be it 20 gauge or 1-1/4" - the consumable cost with plasma is a very, very small consideration. Even then, the things that can be done to improve consumable life such as air quality and height control are often overlooked while shopping for who has a 25-pack of electrodes for $1.28 less or a 5% off coupon. Consumables are calculated into our cost of goods sold and as such, are a function of our selling price. I would hope that if you were changing consumables twice a day or more (your $20k increase estimate above) that you'd be billing out about $250,000 just for the cutting time alone not counting any secondary processing. Even considering depreciation, overhead, and profit, that wouldn't be horrible and I'd bet there would be some labor savings in consumable changes in addition to possibly more efficient use of consumable life, longer life, etc.

It's not unlike how we never hear large oil companies complain about the cost of crude oil. When it is high, whatever the reason, they post record profits because their profit margin is a percentage of total sales.
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Re: Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

Post by cutnweld »

Thanks for the info. I do find it hard to perfectly track consumable life as I'm always changing out sizes for different applications etc. So in the scenario you gave above, 10,000 inches cutting at the fine cut book speed of 220 ipm is 45 and 1/2 minutes cutting time plus pierce delay etc etc. In the example I gave above I cut 2016 inches at 45 ipm. 44.8 minutes arc on plus pierce time etc. Starting with used consumables but similar arc on time probably. I have in the past run several hours on a set, but it was very long runs not much piercing. My thing is this. If you are cutting mostly thin gauge metal, I think SYNC will work fine. But woe to the rest of us who regularly cut and pierce 1/2 inch and thicker, all the way to 1 3/4. When the slag blows back on a pierce, there goes the cartridge! No chance to clean it out. No chance to replace the tip that got abused on the pierce it wasn't made to do in the first place. No problem just flush another 50-60 down the drain instead of $10
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Re: Maybe they're new system isn't as popular as they thought it would be

Post by rdj357 »

cutnweld wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 11:36 pmBut woe to the rest of us who regularly cut and pierce 1/2 inch and thicker, all the way to 1 3/4. When the slag blows back on a pierce, there goes the cartridge! No chance to clean it out. No chance to replace the tip that got abused on the pierce it wasn't made to do in the first place. No problem just flush another 50-60 down the drain instead of $10
I have cut some 3/4 with the 85a SYNC cartridge and it works great. The pierce height is a tiny bit higher than Duramax (0.25" vs 0.24") but the cut height is about doubled (0.125" vs 0.06"). I haven't cut enough of it consistently to have any personal data but I would almost bet that the SYNC will actually outperform with thicker metal compared to thin. I only have an 85 but if I were cutting that thick all day, every day I'd probably want to go with the 125 (which is not SYNC and uses different consumables as it is the Hyamp torch) or at least the 105 SYNC. Piercing 3/4 with an 85 wrecks the shield much faster as well as the nozzle so that $10 change really goes up to $26 for consistent cut quality.

It will be interesting to see how these discussions age when we look back on them a few years from now when more of the SYNC machines are out in the market. Will the good outweigh the bad or will it be like New Coke? Only time will tell. :HaHa
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