PlasmaCam losing position

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Duaneo
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PlasmaCam losing position

Post by Duaneo »

Hi Guys,
I have been using my machine for 8 years without an issue (up until January last year) when it started playing up massively.

The torch height control seems to malfunction during the cut process....it initially senses the material fine at the beginning of the cut, but looses its way during the cut and does not adjust when the material warps slightly with the heat (as it does).....we generally have control this manually.
Further to this, the machine looses position in the duration of a cut, depending of the size of the cut it can be misaligned by 2 inches or more.

Before any of that happened, we also have issues with flat spots on circles.

So far I have:
Replaced Plasma cutter
Replaced Control unit
Pulled down machine and cleaned
Added air dryer/chiller

After all the above changes, 0% improvement. I am in Australia, so replacement parts a bloody expensive, I have already put 10K into attempting to fix the machine (with no luck) and to replace gantry and carriage motors will have me up for minimum another 10k....just hoping someone on here might have some advice, on any one or all my issues.

Further to all this, I also bought another brand CNC Plasma, which is not communicating properly, and customer service is no help in assisting with setting it up, so I am stuck with no production.

Cheers
ARKUS Industries - Canberra - Australia

https://www.arkus.com.au
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by adbuch »

What model? DHC2, DHC, or ?

Torch Height Control - If you are using Design Edge, do you have both levels of Advanced Height Control? If Design Edge, are you running the most recent version 4.53? Have you checked your Torch Control Cable (from controller to plasma cutter)? What plasma cutter are you using? Machine torch or hand torch?

Machine looses position - Have you checked your encoders? The Video Manual explains how to do this.

Issues with flat spots on circles - Could be caused by faulty encoder, slipping pulley/worn belt, or other mechanical issues.

What was your reasoning for replacing the controller, plasma cutter, and now possibly the gantry and carriage motor and/or Z stepper motor?

If you are using Design Edge, have you attempted to use the Video Manual to help troubleshoot your table?

For any of your problems, we will need a more indepth specific information for each particular issue. Also screen shots of your settings pages as well as photos of some of your problematic cuts.

David
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by rdj357 »

Sounds like mechanical slippage causing loss of position and flats. Make sure the gantry belt and motor pulley/sprockets are in good shape and not slipping there. I have a maintenance kit that has new belts and springs that can be sent over. It's not super fast shipping but it gets there eventually across the pond.

Your height issues could be related to this as well if it is slowing or stopping during travel. Settings have a lot to do with it so maybe post some screen shots of your height and machine control settings pages as well as what material, cutter, consumables, and amperage you're using.
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by weldguy »

I wouldn't spend any more money until I was able to determine what it was.

You have more than 1 issue, THC doesn't work and a mechanical problem. Pick your battles 1 at a time. In this case get the mechanical fixed and leave THC off until then.

Can you cut us a simple 3" circle with the flat spot and mark it with a Sharpie marker indicating the X and Y axis direction as it comes off the table?
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by adbuch »

Duaneo wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:38 pm

The torch height control seems to malfunction during the cut process....it initially senses the material fine at the beginning of the cut, but looses its way during the cut and does not adjust when the material warps slightly with the heat (as it does)....
Duane, another thing to check would be your z motor and associated drive components. Problems here could certainly create issues with controlling your torch height reliably.
David
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by adbuch »

weldguy wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:10 pm I wouldn't spend any more money until I was able to determine what it was.

You have more than 1 issue, THC doesn't work and a mechanical problem. Pick your battles 1 at a time. In this case get the mechanical fixed and leave THC off until then.

Can you cut us a simple 3" circle with the flat spot and mark it with a Sharpie marker indicating the X and Y axis direction as it comes off the table?
There are great ideas! Another thing to try would be attaching a sharpie pen holder to your torch and drawing instead of cutting your circles or other parts. This might make it easier to see what is actually going on as the pen draws your circle at slower speed.

David
Duaneo
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by Duaneo »

Thanks for all the great suggestions guys. I intend on spending some time running through them tomorrow (my time)

Product support from the resellers over here is woeful, not only on fixing my old girl, but on the brand new plasma I purchased off them that I cannot get to fire up properly.
No one over here seems to know (or wants to know) anything about them, and from what I can gather, I was probably the most advanced user (at least in my area) up until my machine started playing up.

I will update with some results after I do some testing based on your advice.

And my reasoning for replacing what I have so far, it was based on advice from the Aussie reseller (who is clearly useless), that originally sold me the machine. (except for the chiller/dryer unit that was supplied with the new machine that does not work....so I moved it across in the hope it improves cut quality/consumable life)
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by adbuch »

It sounds like the reseller really had/has no idea how to diagnose your problems, and is just selling you parts without and good reasoning behind the sales (other than to make some money). You never did tell us exactly what table you have. And what software you are using.

What model Plasmacam table do you have?
What software are you using?
If Design Edge, what upgrades do you have?
What plasma cutter are you using?

David
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by Joe Jones »

Sadly, this can be one or more problems that have surfaced. You could have:

1. Worn belts that are slipping or jumping teeth which throws off the machine's ability to know where it is in the universe.

2. Slipping belt drive cog, that is rotating on the metal shaft, and creating the same problem.

3. A bad encoder in one or both servo motors (gantry and carriage) that is losing count as the X/Y position moves around the work area.

4. Seizing cam followers that are not rotating freely, which are spontaneously binding the free movement of the gantry and/or carriage.

5. A loose gear rack in the rails or on the gantry that is shifting in place, causing the machine to lose track of where it should be.

6. Maybe you need to replace the gantry drive shaft, or the carriage motor shaft assembly.

7. A bad controller box. Do you UNPLUG the box from the power cord when you are away from the machine? A simple lightning strike when you are away from the table can fry the brains of the controller and cause these issues. Is your table GROUNDED to a copper grounding rod driven 8 feet (2.5 meters) into the ground? Try pouring a bit of WATER down the sides of the grounding rod, to re-establish the Earth ground. Maybe the soil is dry and you have lost the ground. Do the same for the grounding rod that grounds your building's power system to the Earth ground. A cup of WATER could solve your problems!

8. NEWLY introduced outside electrical interference. Have you ADDED anything electric or electronic to the general area of the PlasmaCam table when these problems began? One BIG source of problems such as you describe is those cheap Chinese L.E.D. shop lights. Here in America (on 120VAC power at 60 Hz) I have found that tables that suddenly start acting strangely are more often than not being illuminated by new recently added, bright white Chinese L.E.D. shop lighting.

When people describe the troubles you are having, the very FIRST thing I ask now is, Have you changed the shop lighting to L.E.D. lights lately?

This is frequently the source of the problems, as the cheap Chinese lights SCREAM RF Interference back into the PC via the parallel cable which acts like an antenna. Now, I have never tested the Chinese lights at 220VAC at 50 Hz, which I believe is Aussie's normal power, but I have to imagine that the interference generated by the lights is compounded by both the additional voltage and the change in frequency from 60 Hz to 50 Hz.

Also, there is a power source selector switch on the side of the controller box. I do not have a box in front of me, but I BELIEVE it is a switch to choose between 50 HZ and 60HZ power. Make sure an unattended, curious child did not SWITCH your box to the American power setting if you are running 50 Hz.

UNPLUG everything that you have recently added to your shop since the problems began. I believe you will track down the source of the problems, which will be RF noise messing with the communication between the controller box and the computer.

Another potential problem is the parallel card in the PC. It may be bad! Have you tried to replace it with a new one? how many YEARS of use do you have on the current parallel card? They DO DIE, you know!

Before buying expensive table parts, I would FIRST

1. Replace the parallel card.

2. Replace the parallel cable.

3. Move your software seat to a new PC with a new parallel card.

4. Check for RF interference from something recently added to the shop around January. Even a new fridge for BEER could do this!

5. Mechanical things do break down and wear out, but generally not SUDDENLY. ASSUME the problem is an issue with communication between the PC and the controller box, the controller box and the servo motors (Bad main wiring harness? Bad encoder(s)?), the controller box and the plasma cutter (The torch control cable may be bad)

Has your power company recently changed out your shop to a new "Smart Meter"? They also emit very strong RF noise.

Before replacing table parts that WERE working, look for reasons those table parts are being instructed to do something differently since January.

I hope this helps!

Joe


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Duaneo
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by Duaneo »

David.....in reference to your questions.....

What model Plasmacam table do you have? Samson 510
What software are you using? Just upgraded again to the latest Design edge
If Design Edge, what upgrades do you have? This was happening from original software we got with our machine 8 years ago, upgraded versions twice to see if an upgrade would resolve anything....thus no change
What plasma cutter are you using? Hypertherm 45XP (Brand new) just upgraded from our old Hyperthem 45 with handtorch setup, again in hopes it would alleviate some of the issues (or all) thus same cut results.

Joe...
Thanks for all that, I will start going step by step through your list (the last couple of weeks I have been working different machines in the shop due to staff shortages, but now hopefully back sorting out my machine)
Only couple I do know -
7 - Bad controller box......just replaced with a new one with no change to the issues
No new electrical stuff or lights that would impact. We upgrade welders etc from time to time, but they are rarely on when the plasma is running. Also not kids playing with switches....I am a pretty big metal workshop with no child access, unless you count my apprentices.

Hopefully will get onto troubleshooting tomorrow
ARKUS Industries - Canberra - Australia

https://www.arkus.com.au
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by adbuch »

As Robert said previously, it would be good if you would post some screen shots of your settings pages so we can see what you are actually doing.
David
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by Joe Jones »

Duaneo wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:20 am
Just upgraded again to the latest Design edge. [..] This was happening from original software we got with our machine 8 years ago, upgraded versions twice to see if an upgrade would resolve anything....thus no change.
There is a difference between an upDATE and an upGRADE. Updating to the newest version DOES NOT change the function of the software. You must UPGRADE the software by purchasing the various upgrades they offer, mostly at $998.00 each ... Advanced Design, Advanced Height Control, Advanced Machine Control, etc. With these three upgrades, you will have a much better machine.
Joe...
Thanks for all that, I will start going step by step through your list (the last couple of weeks I have been working different machines in the shop due to staff shortages, but now hopefully back sorting out my machine)
Only couple I do know -
7 - Bad controller box......just replaced with a new one with no change to the issues
Where are you located? Ahh .. I remember. You are in Australia. Not a quick motorcycle ride from Kentucky!

Joe
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Duaneo
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by Duaneo »

So....amazing update.
Today I replaced the entire gantry arm setup (as you cant just buy spare parts over here) and hey presto! after 18months of throwing money and time after more money and time, we have liftoff. We are fixed, cutting better than ever and finally happy.
Thankyou everyone here for their help and input, it was your guys advice that helped us find the issue, whereas the Aussie suppliers were useless.
ARKUS Industries - Canberra - Australia

https://www.arkus.com.au
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by adbuch »

Duaneo wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:52 pm So....amazing update.
Today I replaced the entire gantry arm setup (as you cant just buy spare parts over here) and hey presto! after 18months of throwing money and time after more money and time, we have liftoff. We are fixed, cutting better than ever and finally happy.
Thankyou everyone here for their help and input, it was your guys advice that helped us find the issue, whereas the Aussie suppliers were useless.
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by rdj357 »

Duaneo wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:52 pm So....amazing update.
...
Great! Glad you're up and going - almost certainly the issue was mechanical slippage from worn gantry gears. I don't know how the gear racks look but keep those top of mind as time goes on.

Love to see production happening again!!
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Re: Troubleshooting.....help

Post by weldguy »

Duaneo wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:52 pm So....amazing update.
Today I replaced the entire gantry arm setup (as you cant just buy spare parts over here) and hey presto! after 18months of throwing money and time after more money and time, we have liftoff. We are fixed, cutting better than ever and finally happy.
Thankyou everyone here for their help and input, it was your guys advice that helped us find the issue, whereas the Aussie suppliers were useless.
Great news. Glad you got it sorted out :Like
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