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Owners Community Forum is Down

Post by Joe Jones »

So I logged onto the Owners Community yesterday. I didn't want to, but I was forced to because the time bomb built into my version 4.48 of DesignEdge went off.

Apparently the forums are all down at the moment. BUT, I could still download the latest and greatest version of DesignEdge. It would allow me to to THAT.

When the red bar appears on the opening splash screen of DesignEdge telling you that you need to update your software, you have (n) number of times you can open DesignEdge before you shut it down normally one day and, oh gosh, oh golly jeepers! ... your SETTINGS file is suddenly corrupt and you have NO CHOICE but to update your software to the latest version, LIKE IT OR NOT.

This has happened to me TOO MANY TIMES for it to be an "oopsie!" coincidence.

IF DesignEdge would allow me to REINSTALL the same version and not make any changes, I would not be bothered by something happening to the SETTINGS file. I could reinstall the SAME version 4.48 and continue as normal. I could CHOOSE whether or not I will update my software to the latest version. NO CHANCE with PlasmaCam. Evidently, you either update your software to the newest version, or you stop using your machine.

I have sold three of my (formerly FIVE) PlasmaCam machines, two brand new GoTorch machines and one of my Samson 510 tables. At the beginning of this summer, I was completely FED UP with the company, and I did what I could to divest myself of it. Then the summer motorcycle tour put the other two table sales on hold until I returned.

Well, I have returned now, and I was considering once again trying to Make Money In Metal Art! but now THREE of my seats for my 510 table have suddenly had this same 'coinky-dink' corrupt settings file error on three different computers. You don't have to be Sherlock Holes to conclude that this is no accident.

It is like Star Trek and THE BORG. "You will be assimilated! Resistance is futile!"

I WAS considering returning to my former idea of setting up a Bed-and-Breakfast School here at my home, to teach people how to get the most out of these machines and this software, but PlasmaCam just keeps giving me reasons to WALK AWAY.

Tomorrow I leave for FabTech 2019 in Chicago. It is the HUGE tech show at The McCormick Place. I will spend three days there looking at laser tables, CNC router tables, and 3D rapid prototyping machines, as well as 3D handheld scanners, and other things. If I see ANYTHING interesting, I will buy it, and my other two PlasmaCam tables (the 4x4 with the rail lift system, and the 510 with the Full Monty of software upgrades) will be put up FOR SALE on eBay to help pay for the new machine(s). My friend in Texas is ALSO selling his 510 table now. I expect I might see many more of them going up FOR SALE in the near future.

I DO like the DesignEdge software, and I even like using the DHC2 and the 510 tables, even with their quirks, ESPECIALLY when I use them as router tables, but I will not be OWNED AND CONTROLLED by a company that makes the products that I purchase.
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Post by Joe Jones »

The OC is still down. 11-22-19
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Re: Owners Community Forum is Down

Post by metalfixer »

Hi Joe,
Hope you are having a great Thanksgiving. I don't know much about PlasmaCAM, but do you have
to be online to run your machine?
How do they control your machine?
Thanks,
Larry
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Post by Joe Jones »

No, you do not need to be online to run the machine (yet.)

The plasmacam is controlled by a PC with DesignEdge software installed onto it.
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Post by rdj357 »

They don't control your machine. The Owner's forum is just fine and the downtime has been very minimal. There are certainly still a few glitches with file sharing but the posting issues have been resolved for weeks.
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Post by metalfixer »

Sorry, I still don't understand. If you don't have to be online to run your machine, and are satisfied with
the version you have, how can you be required to update your software, or the machine stops working?
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Post by rdj357 »

metalfixer wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:38 pm Sorry, I still don't understand. If you don't have to be online to run your machine, and are satisfied with
the version you have, how can you be required to update your software, or the machine stops working?
Larry
I've not experienced any errors or prompting that required any such update. If you call for technical support, they will require you to be using the most current version to assist you . It makes perfect sense for them to do so since bugs or issues might have been corrected in an update(free) so why troubleshoot something that may have already been resolved?
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Post by Joe Jones »

metalfixer wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:38 pm Sorry, I still don't understand. If you don't have to be online to run your machine, and are satisfied with
the version you have, how can you be required to update your software, or the machine stops working?
Larry
I have nine Full Monty seats of DesignEdge on one of my Samson 510 CNC tables, and one seat with fewer upgrades on my other 4x4 DHC2 machine.

Now ... some people will tell you they have no issues with the software, but they are only telling you part of the story. They most likely willingly update their license to the latest and greatest version, and of course, when you comply with the software's notice to update your software, there ARE no problems.

However, if you decide to stay with an earlier version, and that red warning pops up on the opening splash screen, you will have the ability to ignore it ... for a while. DesignEdge will open and function normally. Then, one day when you open the program, you will get the warning that "Oops! Ut-Oh! Your settings file is corrupted, and the software will no longer work. The ONLY way to get DesignEdge working on your PC again is to download the latest update and run it. In other words, if you are completely comfortable running version 4.32 (.33, .34, 36, .37, .38, .39, .40, .41, .42, .43, .44 etc. etc.) and it FAILS, you CANNOT reload that version and continue to use it. you have NO OPTION but to update to the latest version if you want to continue to use your PlasmaCam, Samson or GoTorch machine.

This sudden "oopsie!" corruption of the settings file has happened on SEVERAL of my seats. First, the red bar. Then several openings of designEdge, then the error message appears.

I can understand one computer experiencing a hiccup, but seat after seat on completely different PCs seems to shut down without warning, and there is no other option but to update to the current version (currently 5.52, I believe)

Do I have "proof" of a time bomb built into the software? NOPE! I have not decompiled the software, per the agreement I signed when I purchased the license and the additional seats. I just cringe every time I start up DesignEdge on a PC, because I NEVER KNOW whether the software is going to work or not.

Add to this, the blood pressure raising aggravation of seeing the "Buy Additional Seats" error message. I have a legitimate seat on a PC. It stops working for (insert any of two dozen random reasons here) and I CANNOT reinstall and reactivate the software on THAT PC until I call PlasmaCam and kiss the DON's ring. PlasmaCam wonders why I have NINE SEATS. This is the reason. When one of the PCs f*cks up, I can use another PC to run table or the software until they answer their phone, and check to see if I am trying to do something dastardly, and then finally and begrudgingly reset the seat a day or so later.

I LIKE the software. I LIKE the tables. I even LIKE the owner and his family! I just wish they would bring their licensing, and upgrade purchase and activation, and seat(s) addition, and software reset methods into the 21st Century!

Joe
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Post by jubilly2 »

Interesting. I've had PlasmaCams Design Edge software for years and have only upgraded once when they sent an upgrade CD. I have usually had really good luck with technical support as well. I feel like there are only a few guys running the whole show and they take turns being on call while they do other jobs??? just guessing. I do have a lot of issues with the machine and not sure whether to blame it on my Hypertherm or my compressor or my PlasmaCam...or me!!lol! It seems I figure out one issue and a new one pops up. Frustrating! Have never had the red pop ups you are talking about and have only upgraded once in 7 yrs.
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Post by Joe Jones »

What version of DesignEdge are you currently running?
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Post by Ironman »

I suspect that if there is no internet access, the table computer will work fine forever. I keep mine offline and it has never been online once.
I have just learned from phoning them, of Plasmacam's refusal to supply tech help unless I upgrade to DE. It is supposed to be great, but I know I do not begin to use the full capabilities of 3.11, and have never met someone who can, so I don't need more. Originally in 2005 I chose Pcam because of the software, and the servos. I never considered the character of the company itself. I have a 1946 John Deere and the company supports it. Plasmacam not so much.
I will run mine till the magic box blows up again, and then set up a controller and Mach 3. The net is full of how to do it's.
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Post by Joe Jones »

The old 3.11 software is safe to run indefinitely. The newest versions of DesignEdge ... well, if you ask the company, they will tell you emphatically that there is no time bomb (my words) built into the software, and Mr. Phelps need not worry about the next five seconds, or the batteries in his smoke detector.

I have not decompiled the software, nor do I have the motivation or the skills needed to do so, to take a peek at the internals of the coding. I REALLY wish I could! I have ZERO interest in hacking their software. I have a lot of features I would like to add to MY version of program for my own personal use, to make it a lot better, since PlasmaCam seems unwilling to take a serious look at suggestions for improvements. Sadly, I do not have the time or the memory to learn program coding at my old age. The last time I played with computer programming, it was in BASIC with a Commodore 64! I stick to the licensing agreement and it warns that decompiling DesignEdge is a BIG Bozo No-No.

All I do know is, the most recent versions (4.49 and above ? ) SEEM to need to "phone home" once in a while, in order to keep working. If they are disconnected from the Net for extended periods of time, they SEEM to suddenly and without warning experience corrupted files in the settings, or other errors that basically translate to, "You ain't doin' NOTHIN' else until you update your software to the latest version!". The one about how you have used all of your seats and need to purchase additional seats really irks me.

I cannot prove this, but I get enough texts, emails and phone calls from DesignEdge users who all report the same problem. So I am convinced I am correct. One day the software works fine. Then THE RED BAR OF DEATH appears on the opening splash screen as a friendly reminder that you need to update the software to the latest version ASAP. DesignEdge keeps working for a while, maybe days or weeks, until one day, after a certain number of (cold starts of the computer, or cold starts of DesignEdge, or WHATEVER it is that counts down to zero) happens, you boot up your computer to do some work and the error pops up.

Your config file is corrupt! Your settings file is corrupt! If you want to keep using your table, you need to download the latest version of DesignEdge immediately! Then you might have to wait for PlasmaCam to reset the seat, if your compliance with their demand to update the software results in the "BUY MORE SEATS" error on the same PC you were just using with a previous version of DesignEdge.

I wouldn't mind this, IF PlasmaCam would allow me to download THE SAME VERSION and reactivate it, you know ... to correct the "error" or even move that same older version to a new PC with a fresh hard drive. But nope! You have NO CHOICE but to download the latest version if you want to continue to use your machine.

ADD TO THIS, their latest "policy" that says ADDITIONAL SEATS ARE NOT TRANSFERRABLE ... RETROACTIVELY!! For example, If you bought a USED table from someone four or five years ago, and it CAME with three seats, and PlasmaCam transferred those three seats into YOUR NAME at the time of purchase and activated them for you, today when you go to update those additional seats per their demands to update your software, those seats may stop working and PlasmaCam will tell you that those additional seats WERE NOT transferrable when you bought your table, and therefore they are no longer valid until you PURCHASE THEM AGAIN. Those seats may stop working if you try to update them to the latest version. Two functional UPDATED additional seats will cost you about $750.00

I have already been told by PlasmCam that if I sell my Samson 510 table with the NINE SEATS (to a local high school for example) those additional seats are not transferrable to the new owner of the table. The new owner of my table would have to purchase those additional seats AGAIN. PlasmaCam "found" this company policy the very day I listed my table and nine seats on eBay in early 2019. What a coinkydink! It wasn't in any license agreement I signed, or any paperwork involved in the purchase or activation of those seats, but suddenly ... their "long standing policy" reared its ugly head and applied to the pending sale of my Samson 510 table.

As crazy as all of this sounds, I am still toying with the idea of setting up a Bed-and-Breakfast school here at my home, to teach people how to Make Money In Metal Art! using DesignEdge and the PlasmaCam tables. I do like the software and I do like the tables, even with their quirks. I will also do one-on-one training at remote locations as time allows. We will see what 2020 brings.

You will be assimilated! Resistance is futile! :HaHa
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Post by DXF »

Thanks for the info Joe and thanks again for the hands on training in DesignEdge and help getting my new machine going. My machine computer is not tied to the internet and I will not update DesignEdge on it....how do I know what version I'm running.

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Post by Joe Jones »

At the top of the program in the drop down HELP menu, you can click on ABOUT DESIGNEDGE

It will tell you which version you are running, and also the all important computer number.

Copy down this number and put it on your monitor or tower. When you call the friendly folks at PlasmaCam tech support, this is the first thing they will ask you for, along with your table's serial number.
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Post by djreiswig »

Boy am I so glad I stopped after I requested pricing from PlasmaCam. They sound like a real joy to deal with. I'm still running the same software that came with my table. SheetCam updates occasionally, but there are no time bombs forcing me to update anything. Mach3 still works just fine even though it's not officially supported anymore. Only beef I have is DraftSight killing the free version of their software, but I will move on to something else. Lots of other free cad programs available.
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Post by DXF »

djreiswig wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:51 pm Boy am I so glad I stopped after I requested pricing from PlasmaCam. They sound like a real joy to deal with. I'm still running the same software that came with my table. SheetCam updates occasionally, but there are no time bombs forcing me to update anything. Mach3 still works just fine even though it's not officially supported anymore. Only beef I have is DraftSight killing the free version of their software, but I will move on to something else. Lots of other free cad programs available.
I had a PlasmaCam 98Z machine for almost 19 years with no problem either with the machine or software. I loved the 1.2 software (with the 98Z) and the new DesignEdge software that I bought with my slightly used DHC2 is amazing! Might be a better made machine out there but the software is everything.

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Post by Joe Jones »

and when DesignEdge is combined with V-Carve and a router, the possibilities are amazing!
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Post by Joe Jones »

I am NOT knocking the software or the tables. Even the guy(s?) at tech support try to help when they can.

I am mostly uncomfortable with the uncertainty I feel every single time I boot up a PC with a DesignEdge seat installed on it. WILL the PC boot up? WILL DesignEdge boot up and run, or will this be the day it tells me the config file is corrupt and I need to update the software to use the seat?

DesignEdge is FUN to use. Once you know the software, you can draw anything you can imagine. The tables are quirky, but accurate ENOUGH for metal art and basic metal shapes. I actually have a lot more fun using a router on a PlasmaCam table than I do using a plasma torch.

Two of my Full Monty seats are on Surface PRO tablet PCs, and another is on an Eee-Slate tablet PC. Another is on an old Toshiba laptop because it has a parallel port, and it can step in when the table's PC decides it will no longer work today.

I do not like the looming feeling of "Big Brother" looking over my shoulder or up my *** to see what I am doing on any given day. PlasmaCam needs to relax and let owners use their tables to Make Money In Metal Art! without worrying about the minute details of how that is accomplished.

I am against hackers like the Bozo who hacked their earlier version and sold unlocked copies to table owners, which caused the massive witch hunt and umpteen version updates to try to get ahead of it. I would love to get with PlasmaCam to add many needed features to the software, but that seems to be completely out of the question. So we are stuck with whatever improvements THEY decide we need.

For whatever reason, the Owners Community is still not working for me. I have thought about returning but it seems the powers that be have blackballed my access to the forums. Was it something I said? :HaHa

I have left social media sites like the cesspool of Socialism called Facebook, and others. So I have freed up a lot of time to do other things.

Happy New Year, Folks! I hope 2020 is better for all of us!
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Post by rdj357 »

Yeah.... I'm pretty sure it was something you said..... lol. Of course I'm not in charge of that (or anything else) so it's an assumption.

Ironman,
As for the John Deere support issue.... Really, you can call John Deere and they'll walk you through diagnosis of your tractor on the phone and have a part on the shelf to fix your 1946 equipment? I may need the number of your John Deere guy - the starter quit on my 1955 John Deere and they don't make it anymore, no one aftermarket makes it, best I can do is send it in to a shop that specializes in them and have them rebuild mine assuming they can find or fabricate the parts they need to fix it.
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Post by Joe Jones »

Not to get off topic, but did you hear about the story perhaps 15 years ago, of the 73-year-old man who wanted to renew his driver's license so he could go visit his 80-year-old brother who was dying in a hospital in Wisconsin (i believe)?

They would not give him a driver's license because of his age and vision. In anger, he yelled, "What DON'T you people control!?"

The DMV employee responded, "Riding lawnmowers! We don't control riding lawnmowers!"

So this man fired up his 1966 John Deere riding lawnmower and took off on a 240-MILE road trip ... at 3 MPH, to go see his brother. (edited)

The story in Wikipedia is quite different from what I remember! Go with that one for accuracy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Straight
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Post by Boneyard Welding & Fab »

So what exactly causes these "red bars of death"?

I've been running my dhc2 on designedge software for a few years and couple hundred projects now. Zero updates or issues other than a couple computer freezes.
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Post by Joe Jones »

What version of DesignEdge are you running? Or are you running the older "PlasmaCAM 3.11" software? The old 3.11 software will run indefinitely. The latest versions of DesignEdge (apparently Version 4.47 and above) SEEM to require the ability to 'phone home' once in a while, to report your use of the software back to the mother ship. :HaHa

If you have not seen the red bar of death, congratulations! I don't know how you are avoiding it.

I call it 'The Red Bar of Death' because it pops up on the opening screen of the latest versions of DesignEdge in the splash screen. I boot up my PCs now and then. MOST of the time, they work fine, but after a period of time, the Red Bar of Death appears, telling me that my software needs to be updated. "Update Required" I can boot DesignEdge perhaps several more times without issue, until one day, the Settings file is corrupted for no apparent reason and the software will no longer run until I allow the software to phone home.

When the red bar appears, the software seems to run fine for a while as long as you do not shut down the PC. Powering down the PC may trigger the requirement to update your software the next time you boot up the PC. Or it may be the number of times you open the software on a running PC. I don't know the coding behind it.

The red bar has appeared on five of my seats thus far, as well as the PC that has the other DesignEdge license (with less upgrades) for my 4x4 table. The other three tables (two GoTorch machines and a Samson 510) were sold a while ago. When I see the red bar, I know that I am living on borrowed time. One day I will turn on the PC and suddenly get the error message telling me that UT OH! my settings file is corrupted, and I am required to download the latest version and activate it to continue using the software. It will not even allow me to reactivate the same version I was using.

What causes it? I don't really know. It may be any combination of the following:

1. Too much time has passed since your last update. PlasmaCam may collect DATA from your software ... The amount of time you use the table, the number of cut inches you have done, the tools you use most or least, etc. Maybe they even know what controller box(es) you have run with the license. Is it really a stretch to imagine that the software can report back to PlasmaCam when you use your license with advanced Height control to temporarily run another table that does not HAVE advanced height control activated for that license? Does it tell PlasmaCam when you cut an official PlasmaCam Art Disk file that YOU have not purchased from them on one of their official art disks?

2. Your IP address changes when you move your computer around while you travel. I take as many as five PCs with me when I go to do training sessions. My DesignEdge PCs may potentially boot up from IP addresses all around America. This makes PlasmaCam nervous. They seem to suspect that I might be selling PCs with Full Monty licenses on them. Of course that is NOT the case.

You DO KNOW that PlasmaCam doesn't like it when your software wanders too far from your table, right? You might do something dastardly like taking your upgraded DE software over to another table owner in the next town to allow him to take advantage of YOUR software upgrades and circumvent the license agreement without paying for the use of those software upgrades himself. Oh, the humanity!

Smokey Bear says, "ONLY YOU can use your DesignEdge Software License, and it can only be used to run the table bearing the serial number that is tied to that license." If you own two tables, and you want to nest some shapes on each machine, you'd darned well better have purchased the $998.00 AUTOMATIC NESTING Upgrade for BOTH DesignEdge licenses. You are not allowed to nest a file using one DE license, and then use a USB thumb drive to move that file to the other table's PC to cut that nested file on another table that does not have nesting as part of its software upgrades, you waskally wabbit!

3. Your DesignEdge license hasn't phoned home in a while to report back to PlasmaCam things like the amount of time you use the software, the number of cut inches you have made, and any other imaginable DATA PlasmaCam may find useful to collect and archive without your knowledge.

4. PlasmaCam just misses you! :Sad

Who knows WHY the red bar appears. I have ten seats on one table, and I retain ownership of all ten seats. The activities of the time determine which seat(s) I will use at which location, and my PCs travel with me.

One would THINK that PlasmaCam would see this as beneficial. Take a PC with something like Advanced Height Control, Advanced Machine Control, Advanced Design Upgrade and Automatic Nesting to another table owner who only has the most BASIC DesignEdge license, and allow him to experience the joy of those advanced features. One would THINK that it quite possibly could result in the other guy calling PlasmaCam to order one or more of those upgrades for his own DE license, once he has had some hands on experience with them and seen how great they are. But NO. PlasmaCam does not see it that way. They see it as someone using the software upgrades without paying for them. I do not understand this thought process. Even car dealerships let you TEST DRIVE a car before you buy it. :Yay
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Post by Boneyard Welding & Fab »

I'd have to double check what version I'm currently running.

What I do know off the top of my head is it's designedge that shipped with my machine new several years ago with all the advanced features. Other than activation it's never been connected to the internet as I don't have a data line connected to my shop yet. It's the only seat I own, and I import files via my laptop and a flash drive.

As I mentioned before the only problems I've had are a few random freezes, but I chock that up to I'm using an old desktop with windows xp. Closing out the program and restarting has always taken care of that problem so far. So it's been nothing more than a minor annoyance. However I can definitely understand why someone would be pissed off, getting locked out of software they paid for.
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Post by Joe Jones »

If it has been several years, you are either running 3.11 or one of the earlier versions of DesignEdge, perhaps version 4.30 or so. As long as it keeps running, don't change anything.
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Re: Owners Community Forum is Down

Post by robertspark »

Can you not clone the drive when it's working fine are reclone the drive over the one that has licencing issues?

I'm surprised how much you put up with plasmacam without trying a workaround or hack just to get ligitimate software going with ligitimate hardware
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