Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

I got the answer I was seeking from Zack at PlasmaCam. I am going to make a video that explains the X and Y resolution settings very soon.

Joe
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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

3" pipe (black) and the turned insert that will rotate them. I am only waiting for the bearings now, which are coming from Amazon ... apparently via carrier pigeon!

Joe
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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by djreiswig »

Not following real close, but it doesn't look like you have any teeth on your timing pulley. Won't that belt tend to slip?
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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

djreiswig wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:29 pm Not following real close, but it doesn't look like you have any teeth on your timing pulley. Won't that belt tend to slip?
The belt will be tensioned around the grooved path in the pipe extension. I am HOPING that there will be no slippage. However, I am just in the "Proof of Concept" stage now. I will build this, and place various things onto the TWO rollers that will be driven by the 82" long belt, and the belts wrap approximately 75% of each tube. :Wow

Since both rollers are rotating in the same direction and speed, either clockwise or counter-clockwise, there is basically nothing to resist the rotation of the material piece being cut ... except or that pesky "an object at rest tends to REMAIN at rest" thing. :Sad I am HOPING that it will not present itself as a problem. If it does, I have already sourced a ribbed pulley to replace the smooth pulley, to give the belt the bite it may need.

The purpose of the groove for the belt is so that the tube being cut can roll above the belt without touching the belt. In this way, the length of the tube or pipe being cut is virtually unlimited, as it can extend beyond the table frame in both directions, perhaps as long as 60 feet or more :Yay .

However, the PlasmaCam pipe cutter simply HANGS the pipe in a loop of a belt, and relies on gravity to rotate the pipe accurately. They don't seem to have any slippage issues.

I decided NOT to wrap the pipe with the belt, but rather, provide a positive simultaneous drive of the two rollers beneath the material being cut. I do not anticipate a problem, unless I am cutting some seriously heavy material. If the problem does rear its ugly head :Mad I may gear down the belt drive rather than a direct drive of the rollers, to give it more torque. I also have the option of moving to a light industrial roller chain setup by ditching the belt entirely.

This cutter will handle tubing from 1" to 48" in diameter or larger. So I see a lot of decorative oil drums and fireplace rings appearing in the future. Stack and weld them for an internally lit column! I am also playing with EL VINYL, which is just plain bitchin'! Imagine an oil drum waste can that has a design cut around it that is illuminated at night, powered by a 9vdc NiCad battery that is recharged by a solar panel! These can be used in parking lots for event traffic control, or just for decorative reasons. Many more ideas are on the drawing board.

I am also excited about this! My cutter will also allow you to cut extrusion. Square and rectangular tubing, angle iron of equal or unequal web lengths, and many others. It will be limited mainly by your imagination! The size and variety will be determined by the Z-axis capacity. The stock 2" Z will cut some things. John Derby's 4" Z-axis kit will cut more, and my 6" Z-axis setup will increase your options even further. I may even put together a 10" Z setup just for this purpose.

Finally, this device will allow you to run a ROUTER along a length of wood, or acrylic, or foam, or whatever. So it will serve as a LATHE as well 8-) That is still in the early development stages, but start thinking about what you want your TOTEM POLE to look like!

So the next set of bearings are coming from Amazon. Next Tuesday is the projected delivery date now. Gosh ... good thing I signed up for Amazon PRIME, or it might have taken until NEXT TUESDAY to receive them :Mad

Anyway, the first prototype failed. Not because of the design, but because I tried to make the main frame pieces out of 16 ga. steel to keep the shipping weight down. At nearly 36" wide, it was too floppy and unable to maintain a rigid alignment of the pulleys. The next one should be built (tomorrow?) out of 12 ga. steel. That should solve that problem. I also have a sheet of 10 ga. if I need to go that thick. I may tack weld some small angle iron along the length of the frame body to stiffen it, or I might cut a slot here and there, and insert perpendicular metal slats that would then be welded to it, to stiffen the sides and ends. Each side will have two gussets to make the corners rigid.

I am really anxious to get this thing together, so I can work out the sale of it either as a complete unit, or by selling the particular parts and allowing the buyer to make the LARGE and HEAVY pieces on their tables, which will avoid the shipping charges. I certainly cannot ship the rollers. Those WILL have to be made by the people who buy the pipe cutting accessory. The rollers for the 4x4 are six feet long.

One last issue to work out is a remote limit switch. It will allow the motor to arrive at the "home" position via some other method. I am currently looking into options. One is quite interesting. It involves a coded sticker placed onto the tube, with an optical sensor that tells the machine it has reached the "home" position via rotation of the material. A tack-welded cam for a relocated traditional limit switch is an option. Also a wireless rotational degree sensor option is on the drawing board. My new friend builds space ships and stuff! Knowing me though, I will probably end up using a popsicle stick and conveyor sensor switch :HaHa

Gosh, I HATE WAITING!!!

Joe
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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

Yes, the belt slipped. I could not get it tight enough to be reliable, so ... money wasted on machined pipe inserts. I have switched to pulleys with teeth, and other things. The project was on hold for a lot of reasons, but now all of that stuff is out of the way, so I will get back into the shop to continue the pipe cutter project.

The track for the crane arm carriage is coming along nicely. I bought some 8020 aluminum extrusion to play with. I needed a solid, lightweight, rigid frame that would lay on the table frame to provide the track for the crane arm while keeping the cost down. 8020 is great, but it requires a lot of accurate cutting, and a slew of brackets and hardware to put it all together. 8020 is 'Spensive, Lucy!

I like to think OUTSIDE of the box, so I bought a straight aluminum ladder. It is already straight and rigid, very light weight, and welded via the rungs. I will pick it up on Monday, and then get onto building the crane arm. The ladder will be the frame for the carriage track system. My cutter does not use the table's gantry tube or carriage assembly at all. You will either mount the cutter to the table frame, or build your own freestanding base on wheels, and simply roll the cutter to the table when you need it.

The Z motor and backing plate will be at the top of the height adjustable arm. This cutter uses the PlasmaCam gantry and carriage motors, but NOT the motors that are built into the table. This cutter will require absolutely no modification to the table. Setup is only minutes, and the result will be a pipe/cylinder cutter with a 48" diameter capacity or larger. I am shooting for 60" capacity, just because. :Yay The ONLY thing you will need to do is to move the main wiring harness from the table's carriage and gantry motors to the cutter's motors.

I have not yet decided whether to use a belt, or a chain, or a long ACME screw to drive the carriage assembly. I am searching for options.

Joe
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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by weldguy »

Hey Joe, thanks for the update, thought you kicked this project to the curb. I like your way of thinking and look forward to seeing more progress. It all sounds so intriguing and now there's a ladder involved, this is getting good!
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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

I have no excuse, except that I am just finding it difficult to be motivated to move forward.

Thanks for the reminder about the ladder! I will TRY to run down to Nashville today to pick it up.

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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

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Thanks admin!
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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

I got the ladder. it is fantastic. It will work very well. It is very lightweight, so it is EASY to lift onto the table and off again, to set up the cutter. I am working on the 510 cutter first, because that is the BIG one. When it is working great, I will make a shorter version for the 4x4 table, and I will probably make a stand alone version just for the heck of it.

Truthfully, ANY aluminum ladder, or the wider section of an extension ladder will work. It needs to be at least 7" longer than the X-axis of your table, but in the case of the 510, the tracks are only 10 feet long, and the carriage takes up 5 inches of that space, so the effective cut distance along the top of the cylinder is 115 inches. That is good enough, I suppose.

I just didn't want to get the thing together using an old ladder that I have here at my shop, and then have to start all over again for lack of an ability to duplicate the process with a different ladder. So I purchased the WERNER 512-1 12-foot straight ladder for this project. I know I can get more of them, and other people can also order one if they choose to go that route. But quite frankly, ANY aluminum ladder will work. The width of the carriage track is 20.6" and the ladders are not quite that wide. So it is a simple matter of using your plasma table :HaHa to make the necessary adapter brackets to fit the track and carriage to the ladder. If you are ANY good at fabricating, this will be dirt simple.

I am anxious to get the first working model together, and to demonstrate it. I will probably use an oil drum for the demo, since I have a dozen of them here, all in very nice condition. I have all of the parts. All I need now is ENERGY!

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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by weldguy »

I am trying to picture all this in my head from your description...not working. Have any pics Joe or will we held in suspense a little longer :HaHa :HaHa
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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

Unfortunately, in this world of, "I can rip THAT off!" where people have ZERO moral fiber, releasing early photos or design files is a death knoll for this thing. I can name a dozen people off of the top of my head who would grab this and RUN with it.

Now with that said, I AM going to give away the final design, along with the DXF cut files for those components that YOU can make, as well as a "Buy List" of the parts you will need to purchase in order to make this a reality. I will include links to the sources for things like the 'YUGE drive belt that makes it all work, and the carriage trolley system that is made by a company already, so I don't have to make it from scratch.

You already know about the WERNER 512-1 Aluminum Step Ladder that I will use for the trolley track. That is no secret. it is just using existing things to accomplish new goals. Why bother to weld up an aluminum frame and try to get it perfectly square and rigid, when you can lay an aluminum ladder across the table frame and be DONE with it? :HaHa

The weather is warming up a bit, so I will get back out to the shop soon. The first roller support set I made is a bit too small. so I have to change the dimensions of the design and make four of them again in the new size. The rollers are 3" Schedule 40 pipe. I cannot ship that to you, but you can certainly buy it locally. It is universal ENOUGH that wherever you buy it, you will have the rollers you need.

There are a set of pillow block bearings that make this thing work, and give you the ability to cut any tube from one inch to (currently) 48 inches in diameter. I am still working out the carriage drive system. I cannot decide whether to make it a belt, or a chain, or a worm gear. All three of them are similarly 'Spensive, Lucy!

This cutter will require an additional gantry, carriage and Z motor, because it does not use any of the motors attached to the PlasmaCam table. So, yeah ... that is $900.00 right there to buy those motors. Also another backing plate and the side rollers will be needed.

One of the neat things about this cutter is that you can lay a single tube onto the rollers, and either cut the entire length with designs, or cut the tube into sections all at once, with coped ends that will form 90-degree and 45-degree intersections, for example.

I am absolutely determined to make a router work with this as well. So you can roll a round log, or a peeler core, or a wooden column, and carve into the surface.

One unknown at this point is the extension of the height control wire. This design leaves both the carriage and gantry motors mounted to the frame at one end. Currently, neither of them moves. The Z motor with the torch rides over the tube along the length. I want the torch height control to work as it does now. However, this will mean that the ohmic sensing wire will need to be greatly extended to maintain height control far away from the carriage motor. I am not sure that this will work, and the "Plan B" is to mount the carriage motor on the crane arm at the base and let it ride alongside the tube instead. I am trying to get completely AWAY from the %$^&# swinging wiring harness.

There are two design concepts, and if #1 doesn't work as I had hoped, I will move to design #2. The first one supports the entire mechanism over the table grates, while the second one mounts the tub onto an accessory frame extension, and the tube will rotate on rollers to one side of the table, with the torch reaching over the rail to the top center of the cylinder.

I sure could use some energetic helper(s) here. But I will get it done, eventually.

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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

I found exactly what I need on the Internet today. The only problem now is, the components cost about $5,000.00 :Wow

I am now searching for cheaper alternatives...

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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by weldguy »

Ah ya, point taken Joe, I can be patient and wait. I do the same thing, in fact in the past I have taken it to the extreme where I do not show close up shots or shots of key components or techniques, you would actually have to buy the product to figure it out and rip it off. Good luck on your development Joe.
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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

2-21-2022
I ordered the glide rails and "cars" that run over them. They are shipped, and should be here in a few days.

The next thing to do, will be to mount them to the ladder frame and build the trolley car and crane arm. Then I have to mount the torch at the top with the backing plate and the Z motor up there.

Finally I have to find a way to drive the trolley the full length of the table, with the gantry motor mounted stationary at one end. I was looking for ACME rods similar to the Z-motor rods, but 11 feet long. NO JOY. :Sad So I am switching to either a belt or a chain to drive the trolley along the glide rails.

I may take a slight detour and play with a garage door opener ACME screw and aluminum housing, IF I can find one that has ten feet of travel! :roll:

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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by weldguy »

Ahhh, progress :Like
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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

Yes, the weather is warming up so I can spend time in the shops again. I discovered one small error in the first prototype brackets, so I have changed the dimensions and will make another set to correct the problem.

The goal is to have a pipe and tubing cutter than allows for ten feet of cutting, either on a single cylinder, or by slicing the cylinder into segments or even rings, and doing multiple coping cuts at the same time. I also want the ability to cut various extrusions, and use a router in place of the torch.

My cutter uses gravity for the cylinder, with no belt wrapping it. Alignment wheels will be added to keep it straight and true.

I am heading to a local country doctor today, to see about a Rx for blood pressure, and I have to do something about this massive energy drain that has been haunting me ever since this zombie apocalypse began.

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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

I am toying with the concept of the convex pulley to drive a tensioned cable. They are used on boat winches, where a cable is fed onto a pulley at an equal rate to the cable being removed from the pulley. The windings around the center are constant, but the length of each lead changes with the rotation of the pulley. I think this will be accurate enough to drive the trolley without the need for the gantry motor to move at all.

Do you remember the old ROUTER CRAFTER device from Sears? It works on this principle. I found one in a pawn shop last year and bought it, to study the cable functions.

Joe

http://youtu.be/j2jY6D7U_oc
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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by weldguy »

Checked out the video, pretty cool and never saw that Sears tool before. Ah the good old days.
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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

The latest development ...

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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

My side hurts from laughing at that video..

Pull up the tracking numbers and FedEx will show the shipping weight for each box. That along with an inventory check at Vevor should show your right. One of my pet peeves with FleaBay is they show US stock (normally Kali), well you order it and Wait. When it shows up it has a label over the original Chinese label they brought it in on..

Hello I could have ordered it from China myself at 1/2 the price..
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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

SegoMan DeSigns wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:39 pm My side hurts from laughing at that video..
That was my intention!

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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by abmetal »

I LOVE IT! GO GETTEM' JOE!!!


Allen
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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

So they send me this ...

support_us
To: Joe Jones

Mon, Mar 7 at 4:45 AM

Dear Customer,

We are sorry that our products have brought you a bad experience! We are willing to resend a machine for you free of charge. Can you accept it? Looking forward to your reply.

Best regards,

Melissa


I have a good mind to reply with ...

"I accept your apology, and I will receive a new 5x10 1000 WATT CO2 laser table with humble honor and gratitude...

This is NOT a small company. They serve 17 COUNTRIES around the world. Certainly, they can afford to hire someone who knows BOTH Chinese and English, and can quickly and accurately translate all communications between the two languages.

I replied...

Joe Jones
To:
support_us

Mon, Mar 7 at 4:53 AM

I understand English is not your first language and therefore you have difficulty conveying your message. I do not know what you mean by “resend a machine.”

What I am asking you to do is send me the parts which I paid for by my $189.98 purchase of two complete sets of rails with four bearing blocks included with each set. I am not looking for anything for free. I only want the items that I paid for!

Will you please have an American representative who speaks English call me on my telephone to clarify the situation? I am obviously not explaining this to you in a way that you can understand so I would like to speak to an American who has the authority to correct the situation.

Joe Jones
###-###-####


At this point, it is not about the $95.00 loss. It is about speaking to a company representative IN ENGLISH and getting them to pull their heads out of their Communist rectums! A company this size has NO EXCUSE for avoiding setting up communications in the languages of the countries that they serve.

In Utah, "NuSkin" has an entire team of people who are nothing but TRANSLATORS. A friend of mine went to college to learn how to speak FLUENT Mandarin and Cantonese Chinese, just to be hired. He has worked for them for 20-something years, and all he does (for a very generous salary) is take WHATEVER they produce in English, and WHATEVER CHINA sends in response, and properly and accurately translate it into one language or the other so that there are no misunderstandings. NuSkin has an ARMY of translators that collectively speak nearly every language on Earth. They have that advantage, having sent Mormon missionaries all around the globe for decades! :HaHa

Joe



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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

weldguy wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:54 am Checked out the video, pretty cool and never saw that Sears tool before. Ah the good old days.
One of my goals is to set up a DeWalt 611 router on the carriage and place a rotary tool beneath it, to TURN wood and other softer materials like a lathe, using the router bit in place of the usual carving tools. This is a capability I want to add to my pipe cutter!

Joe


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Re: Not Far Off now! New Pipe Cutter Accessory!

Post by Joe Jones »

If anyone is interested in playing with an earlier idea I developed, I have uploaded the file for this experimental pipe cutter. It is designed for a table with a rail lift on it, however it CAN be modified to fit a normal table, when you fabricate an extended and raised torch holder for the backing plate. You can change the dimensions to move the pipe further away from the gantry tube, and allow you to make some sort of frame to raise the torch to the new position.

The concept is using the motion of the gantry to roll the cylinder on two lengths of 3/4" or 1" square tubing that act as the track. The carriage cuts along the length of the pipe. Four steel wheels on bearings are positioned roughly at the 10:00 and 2:00 positions on each side of the tube to be cut. These wheels push and pull the tube along the tracks in sync with the gantry. I used the steel wheels from the PlasmaCam pipe cutter roller assembly, but you can use steel bearings, or simply a stack of washers tack welded together to make wheels. It is IMPORTANT that all four wheels roll against the pipe at all times, in both directions with NO SLOP.

The torch must be positioned at top dead center over the tube being cut. If you have a standard PlasmaCam table, you may need to fabricate an extended arm to hold the torch out away from, and higher up from the standard position.

There are two additional small tabs that can hold guide wheels if you choose to use them. They would rotate horizontally, and ride against the bottom quadrant of the cylinder on each side. In the video, these two bottom wheels are not mounted, and the tube is just rubbing against the steel plates.

You would cut two of these plates. Bend the large tabs at 90 degrees, one left and one right. GENTLY attach them to the gantry tube with C-clamps (see video). You must also use something to extend the reach of the carriage so it hits the limit switch BEFORE crashing into the left plate. I used a length of 1/8" x 1" steel flat bar in the video, but you could use a simple wooden foot ruler or a similar device.

The pattern must be flipped and mirrored in order for the text to come out correct. The file as a sample "PIPE CUTTER" cut file for you to play with on a 4" diameter pipe.

If you have any questions, feel free to call me or contact me.

Joe
ROLLING PIPE CUTTER EXPERIMENT.pcm

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Franklin, KY., USA
Samson 510 & 4x4
6” Z Rail Lift Kit for PlasmaCam
CreatBot D600 PRO 3D Printer
12 Lasers
FREE DesignEdge Training!

It is more fun when it isn't necessary!
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