Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

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matt87
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Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

Post by matt87 »

Hi Guys,
Having some issues that are very frustrating at trying to diagnose.
Samson 510, hypertherm 45xp, design edge software.
First problem happen halfway through cutting some jobs, torch stopped and gave me the lost arc voltage error, replaced all cosumables and tried to continue. cut for 2 seconds then stopped again same error. checked cords, consumables, earth cable with no luck.
Ordered a new hypertherm 45xp as advised that might be the issue.
Plugged in with no success. problem got worse would not cut at all, only a little test fire (not normal test fire, seemed weak).
Called the technical support where i bought it from in Australia and advised me that it could be control box fault. i order a new control box with new parallel cable and other cable that connect plasma to control box.
plugged all that in and still no luck. torch will not fire at all. checked all settings, auto cut control is on the box and in the machine tab. disconnected and reconnected, the torch wont even fire when you hit TEST on the control box.
Im completely stumped and so are the technical support where i have bought it from. Any help or contact of someone who can help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Matt
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Re: Torch won't fire, and technical support are stumped.

Post by adbuch »

Hi Matt,
Are you using a machine torch with CPC port or manual torch wired into your 45xp with the Plasmacam torch control cable?
In either case perhaps consider testing your torch control cable to make sure it is not damaged or defective. If CPC port, then make sure you have your voltage divider set correctly for the Plasmacam table.
Is this a new problem and your machine was previously cutting fine, or if this a new table to you and you are trying to work the bugs out?

You had one specific set of problems before you replaced your plasma cutter, and another set now. Are you able to use either of you 45xp machines for manual cutting? What about your air supply? Do you have a good solid 100 psi at the entrance to the cutter while air is flowing thru the torch?

Have you tested your work lead ("ground lead") end to end? Have you been using the same work lead/clamp with both cutters, or did replace the work lead/clamp when you installed the new 45xp?

Any error lights displayed on the plasma cutter front panel? Have you tested your incoming power/voltage to your cutter to make sure it is correct for your cutter?

I would start by testing your 45xp in manual mode (hand cutting) to make sure it is working properly. If it is, then the next thing I would check is the torch control cable. Also at work lead end-to-end. If you can run a set of cut paths with the torch shut off and the table x,y,z motions are correct - then I doubt you have a controller problem.

There are also diagnostic tests (see video manual) normally performed when the torch control cable is first wired to the plasma cutter. Have you performed those tests and if so, what were your results?

Robert will have more insight into these sorts of problems than I do, and perhaps he will chime in later today - although I do know he is currently on holiday from his business.

David
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Re: Torch won't fire, and technical support are stumped.

Post by weldguy »

Going back to the beginning of your issue you stated "halfway through cutting some jobs, torch stopped and gave me the lost arc voltage error" this would be an error you are seeing on the computer screen from the Samson software I am assuming. As soon as you see that you want to look at the 45XP and determine if it is giving you an error code. That would be the first place to check. Did you recall the 45XP showing you an error code?
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Re: Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

Post by matt87 »

appreciate the responses,
hi david,
We have been running this machine full time for 3 years with very little problems.
We are using machine torch with CPC port, we have got a new torch control cable and have tested with the jumper cable and torch fires. Voltage divider is set the correct and the same as old machine that has been running.
When it first happened the old plasma would fire for a quick second but now it doesnt even do that same as new machine and the strange thing is. We have a hand torch and it does not work on the old plasma however works fine on the new plasma.
We have swapped ground lead over to the old one and no change.
No error lights at all at any stage on the plasma.
X,Y,Z all work fine and no issues
Testing air pressure and power coming in now.

Hi Weldguy,
yep error code on the computer screen from samson software. No error codes at all on the 45xp.
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Re: Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

Post by weldguy »

No Powermax error codes, very odd. If torch fires when jumped but not when using the controller and you have a second controller that still won't fire it I would inspect your wires closely for a break somewhere along the line. Not sure what else that could be. All the controller is doing is jumping the wires same as you do manually.
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Re: Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

Post by matt87 »

yep very odd, we have replaced all cords and tried a second machine torch with no results.
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Re: Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

Post by matt87 »

Ive had an electrician in this morning to test all power and grounding with no issues found
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Re: Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

Post by SegoMan DeSigns »

With the machine torch attached jump pins 3 & 4 on the Hypertherm CPC port, this should fire the torch.
If not check the pins for a signal of 15V DC.
If 15V is not present check internal wiring from board to PC port
If that works put an ohm meter on the port from the control box and monitor it (this is a make / break relay) when you run a file
it could be a faulty relay on the control end
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Re: Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

Post by rdj357 »

If you jump the pins (3-4 on CPC) and the torch fires consistently then take it out to the other end of the CPC cable - If you have a jumper plug from Plasmacam that plugs on to the end of the 6 pin din and gives you breakout wires, great. If not, I'll attach the torch cable pinout diagram. You should jump the trigger pins at the 6 pin DIN to see if it fires consistently and keeps working when wiggle tested. I have seen several CPC cables lately that had bad solder connections at the 6 pin DIN plug. (Not the ones I make.... so far.... knock on wood..... lol)

If the torch fires consistently at the 6 pin DIN and still will not fire with the test button on the controller (machine initialized and maybe even verified that test button is working using machine diagnostics screen) then there is an issue with the controller. I hope and suspect that is not the case and there is an issue between the controller and Hypertherm.

A&B are the trigger so polarity is not an issue and they could be reversed and work fine. C&D are polarity sensitive as they are the DC divided arc voltage.
Jumping A and B at the 6 pin plug should fire the torch consistently.
Torch Interface CPC Diagram.png

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Re: Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

Post by matt87 »

Thanks heaps guys, still no luck.
i have the jumper plug from plasmacam and the torch fires consistently using that and even when wriggled every which way possible.
Test button in diagnostics lights up fine when pushed on the screen and on control panel.
i have a new cpc cable and have tried both new and old one, new parallel cable tried new and old.
I ordered a second control box from the business i bought it from new, they didnt have a new one so sent me the one of there display machine. have tried both control boxes.
Whats the chances of the second control box having the same issue?
Im waiting on someone to give me a hand with ohm meter testing relay as not real confident with that stuff.
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Re: Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

Post by rdj357 »

Other than making absolutely, positively sure that the cable is rotated correctly and inserted and seated fully, I’ve got nothing. The controller is just a dry switch for the trigger circuit so it should fire when the test button is pressed. If it does not and it is as you say with the jumper plug working fine then There really isn’t anything else that I’m aware of.
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Re: Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

Post by Plasma-art »

matt87 wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:09 pm i have a new cpc cable and have tried both new and old one, new parallel cable tried new and old.

Im waiting on someone to give me a hand with ohm meter testing relay as not real confident with that stuff.
Have you tried a different computer?
Could well be as simple as one of the pins of the parralel port is no longer working.
Considering the issue remains with a new board, plasma and cables there is not much left at that point.

Doing an ohm's reading is simple, set the multimeter to ohms and plug the 2 probes in the 2 contacts on the control box that fire the plasma.
Hit the test button and it should drop to a low value.
Can quickly help diagnosing an issue in a case like this and is a very helpfull skill.
Last edited by Plasma-art on Thu Dec 29, 2022 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

Post by adbuch »

Plasma-art wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 1:26 am
matt87 wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:09 pm i have a new cpc cable and have tried both new and old one, new parallel cable tried new and old.

Im waiting on someone to give me a hand with ohm meter testing relay as not real confident with that stuff.
Have you tried a different computer?
Could well be as simple as one of the pins of the parralel port is no longer working.
Considering the issue remains with a new board, plasma and cables there is not much left at that point.
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Re: Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

Post by Joe Jones »

matt87 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:57 pm Hi Guys,
Having some issues that are very frustrating at trying to diagnose.

Thanks Matt
get inside of the 45XP and make sure the DIP switches are set to 21.1:1 voltage ratio. See PAGE 108 of your 45XP Operators Manual

Joe
45 XP DIP SWITCHES 1 OF 2.jpg
45 XP DIP SWITCHES 2 OF 2.jpg
45XP DIP SWITCHES DRAWING.jpg

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Re: Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

Post by rdj357 »

Joe Jones wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:12 pm
get inside of the 45XP and make sure the DIP switches are set to 21.1:1 voltage ratio. See PAGE 108 of your 45XP Operators Manual

Joe
matt87 wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:34 pm appreciate the responses,
hi david,
We have been running this machine full time for 3 years with very little problems.
We are using machine torch with CPC port, we have got a new torch control cable and have tested with the jumper cable and torch fires. Voltage divider is set the correct and the same as old machine that has been running.
When it first happened the old plasma would fire for a quick second but now it doesnt even do that same as new machine and the strange thing is. We have a hand torch and it does not work on the old plasma however works fine on the new plasma.
….
Emphasis added.

The OP claims the voltage divider is set correctly and that the torch won’t even try to fire. It’s an odd problem that I look forward to hearing its resolution.
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Re: Torch won't fire, PlasmaCam tech support stumped.

Post by Joe Jones »

Ah, I didn't catch that. Well, the information may help someone else, so the post is not wasted.

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