torch reference question.

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cruz
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by cruz »

ok, i'll give it a go tomorrow.
hope it works this time, I'm starting to lose hope with this machine.
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by tcaudle »

Use MP1000-THC post in sheetcam. Its a very basic post for a trable with a THC and touch off sensor. The first taxk is to get an iput to light up when the bottom snesor is activated (probably by simply pushing up on the torch tip to cause the proximity sensor to trip. Once you get an INPUT to react you can assign it to any function (like Z home or Probe. Your diagnostics screen is your friend here. You need to figure out what causes the lower sensor to change state (activate) then find that input in MACH using the diagnsotics then "map" it to a MACH function by assigning the port and pin to that function . a "functions is what MACH does with the signal. So if you want the signal to trigger a Z home function you point the input (Port and pin) to that function. If you want a Probe function you point the port and pin to that Function in Ports and Pins.
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by cruz »

if i'm correct, the thing i want in my situation is the probe function right?
i want the torch to reference the plate before every pierce,
by physically touching the plate and updating the Z-axis.
i should use the probe function then right?
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by djreiswig »

I would connect it as a z home switch.
If your z moves down after touching before the input activates then you will need a switch offset. Most posts I've seen use G28.1 with a switch offset. G31 probe doesn't usually have this offset.
Probe is usually used for ohmic which makes an electrical connection between the torch and the plate which is instantaneous and doesn't require an offset.
The probe uses G31 and the z home uses G28.1
You can modify the post to use either one and apply the offset as needed. I think either would work in the end. As long as you end up with the torch zeroed on the top of the material, that's all that matters.
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by acourtjester »

Crur yes that is correct the changes I gave you will use the Z home not the probe.
Both do similar things just use a different G-code and input signals on the BOB board.
The post processor will have the G-code do that function for each cut start, that will take care of warping of the metal. And the THC will take care of it while cutting after the start.
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by cruz »

it worked!! kinda off...
but i have a other issue now
after i zero the Z-axis to the plate:
- torch goes to rapid clearance height and then to the piercing point.
- then goes to reference the plate
- it then goes to the pierce height BUT
it then goes higher than that, i'm thinking it adds the offset to the pierce height.
also when you send the Z-axis to the zero, i doesn't go down to the plate.
it stay the offset distance away from the plate.

when this happens and i go to the diagnostic page, i see that the G92 offset for the Z-axis says +3.2000
when it goes to reference for the next pierce, it adds the same value to the G92 offset for Z-axis making it 6.4000.
it keeps doing that with every reference.

here's the code i used when having this problem
(i have the same problem when using the Mach3 plasma snippet Mod .035 processor)
N0010 (Filename: bijna.tap)
N0020 (Post processor: MP1000-THC.scpost)
N0030 (Date: 09/01/2019)
N0040 G21 (Units: Metric)
N0050 G53 G90 G40
N0060 F1
N0070 (Part: 203)
N0080 (Operation: Outside Offset, 0, T5: staal 45A 5mm THC 109 1,8 kerf)
N0090 M06 T5 F1800 (staal 45A 5mm THC 109 1,8 kerf)
N0100 G00 Z15.0000
N0110 X30.5425 Y26.4336
N0120 Z3.8000
N0130 G28.1 Z3.00
N0140 G92 Z0.0
N0150 G00 Z0.3000
N0160 G92 Z0.0
N0170 G00 Z3.8000
N0180 M03
N0190 G01 X30.5418 Y24.1336 Z1.5000 F400.0
N0200 X30.5408 Y20.4336 F1440.0
N0210 X31.5408 Y20.4333
N0220 X89.9184 Y20.4163 F1800.0
N0230 X89.7704 Y89.8151
N0240 X20.3705 Y89.7452
N0250 X20.5184 Y20.4365
N0260 X25.5408 Y20.4350
N0270 X30.5408 Y20.4336 F1170.0
N0280 X33.5408 Y20.4327
N0290 G03 X34.8211 Y21.7123 I0.0004 J1.2800
N0300 M05
N0310 G00 Z15.0000
N0320 X30.0560 Y-6.7630
N0330 Z3.8000
N0340 G28.1 Z3.00
N0350 G92 Z0.0
N0360 G00 Z0.3000
N0370 G92 Z0.0
N0380 G00 Z3.8000
N0390 M03
N0400 G01 X30.0532 Y-4.4630 Z1.5000 F400.0
N0410 X30.0486 Y-0.7630 F1440.0
N0420 X29.0486 Y-0.7643
N0430 X0.0414 Y-0.8000 F1800.0
N0440 G02 X-0.7596 Y-0.0003 I-0.0010 J0.8000
N0450 G01 X-0.8000 Y109.9484
N0460 G02 X-0.0003 Y110.7487 I0.8000 J0.0003
N0470 G01 X110.0508 Y110.7892
N0480 G02 X110.8511 Y109.9891 I0.0003 J-0.8000
N0490 G01 X110.8403 Y0.1354
N0500 G02 X110.0413 Y-0.6645 I-0.8000 J0.0001
N0510 G01 X35.0486 Y-0.7569
N0520 X30.0486 Y-0.7630 F1170.0
N0530 X27.0486 Y-0.7667
N0540 G03 X25.7702 Y-2.0483 I0.0016 J-1.2800
N0550 M05
N0560 G00 Z15.0000
N0570 X0.0000 Y0.0000
N0580 M05 M30
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by acourtjester »

It should not have any value on the diagnostic page for Z for a G92 offset. I cannot tell you why it is there. I went there are tried to enter a value and it would not allow it, I have 0.00 there. Line 130 starts the Z down to find the metal surface then sets Z to 0.0, then moves up for the switch offset, then set Z to 0.0 again. next to move to pierce height. The G-code is showing that is what it is to be doing.
Which version of Mach 3 are you using?? It should be .062 or .067 last numbers.
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by cruz »

acourtjester wrote: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:37 pm It should not have any value on the diagnostic page for Z for a G92 offset. I cannot tell you why it is there. I went there are tried to enter a value and it would not allow it, I have 0.00 there. Line 130 starts the Z down to find the metal surface then sets Z to 0.0, then moves up for the switch offset, then set Z to 0.0 again. next to move to pierce height. The G-code is showing that is what it is to be doing.
Which version of Mach 3 are you using?? It should be .062 or .067 last numbers.
yea, i can't change the value of the G92 offset neither, i click on it any type something but it goes back to the old value.
i don't know the version i'm running now, i'll see tomorrow.
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by cruz »

also the method that was told to me on this thread to find out the offset is a little different than the method on the video linked a few posts back.
in the video the guy uses the diagnostic page to see when the torch is touching, with this method i come to a different result (offset is then 0,30).
but the method giving to me in this thread says to use a piece of paper (with this method the offset is of 2,8)
little bit of difference... :shock: :D .
but with any of the method i get the same problem of the torch going too high.
any thoughts on that anyone?
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by acourtjester »

I don't know if this means anything but I played around to see what had an effect on the G92 offset on the diagnostic page.
This was under the config tab click on Safe_Z setup this brings up the menu shown here, when I was running a G-code and hit reset and went to the diagnostic page there would be a value in the G92 offset Z field. This would clear when restarting Mach 3. See if yours have anything other then what is shown in the second image (dot only in the safeZ dro in machine coo) then restart Mach. I don't know if this will help :(
z6.JPG
z5.JPG
Z3.JPG

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Re: torch reference question.

Post by cruz »

thanks acourtjester, i'll look at it tomorrow.
i'm just thinking whether the problem is that i'm using the wrong post processor or is it in mach3?
i'll keep playing with till it works, or until i lose my patience.
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by acourtjester »

Well it looks like the one you used had the correct steps in the G-code, but Mach did not follow. I think the post processor I sent would give a very similar G-code. There could be setting in Mach that are causing the problem. Here is another thing to check.
check box.jpg

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Re: torch reference question.

Post by cruz »

my version of mach3 is R3. 043.066
none of the boxes of MaxNC mode are checked.
i'm at a loss.
i'm gonna keep trying to fix it, it's really a function i want to have.
thank you verry verry much everyone for all the info,
great to have place where you get so much help.

if anyone has any more suggestions or ideas, they are very welcome.

thanks!!!
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by brucer »

Cruz
Have you tried the MP1000-THC post yet? I have a floating head setup somewhat like yours and that is the post I use, all I had to do was change the switch offset in the post to .045.. .045 being the movement of my floating head before it trips the proximity sensor..

You wont have to set your z axis before cutting, just get it relatively close, I usually set mine within about a 1/2".. That post sends the z axis down to hunt for the touch off to trip the proximity sensor to set the z zero itself using g28.1
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by cruz »

brucer wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:33 pm Cruz
Have you tried the MP1000-THC post yet? I have a floating head setup somewhat like yours and that is the post I use, all I had to do was change the switch offset in the post to .045.. .045 being the movement of my floating head before it trips the proximity sensor..

You wont have to set your z axis before cutting, just get it relatively close, I usually set mine within about a 1/2".. That post sends the z axis down to hunt for the touch off to trip the proximity sensor to set the z zero itself using g28.1
hi,

yes i'm using the mp1000-thc post now.
it's working fine after a few changes, but i'm still waiting and testing it to make sure everything is fine.
i always used a 2mm plate to set the Z-axis the first time, now that won't be necessary anymore.

i do find it strange that my offset is much more than yours, my offset is 1,35mm that's around 52 thou for the imperial guys.
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by djreiswig »

Mine is .063". Just depends on the switch.
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by robertspark »

How did you test it?

I suggest getting a thin piece of paper....
place it on the metal sheet and to a G31 (G28.1) via the MDI.
When the torch stops
type in G92 Z0 to the mdi
then jog upwards in small increments (whatever works for you) until you can slide the piece of paper out.
reading you z axis DRO will give you the switch offset (technically minus the paper thickness..... but if you use thin paper this should not matter).

Give it a few goes and average the readings if you are REALLY particular.

if you jog too high too quick, DONT jog down..... your Z will probably have some (however small) backlash.... just restart the probe / homing sequence.

i'd suggest starting your probing from your normal retract height..... as some machines may do homing and probing differently.... and take into account the deceleration from the time the switch is triggered to the time the torch stops descending.

hence you want your probing feedrate to be consistent with whatever you wish to use.
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by acourtjester »

here is a video for switch offset
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CDml_kosbY&t=6s
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by brucer »

cruz wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:45 pm
brucer wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:33 pm Cruz
Have you tried the MP1000-THC post yet? I have a floating head setup somewhat like yours and that is the post I use, all I had to do was change the switch offset in the post to .045.. .045 being the movement of my floating head before it trips the proximity sensor..

You wont have to set your z axis before cutting, just get it relatively close, I usually set mine within about a 1/2".. That post sends the z axis down to hunt for the touch off to trip the proximity sensor to set the z zero itself using g28.1
hi,

yes i'm using the mp1000-thc post now.
it's working fine after a few changes, but i'm still waiting and testing it to make sure everything is fine.
i always used a 2mm plate to set the Z-axis the first time, now that won't be necessary anymore.

i do find it strange that my offset is much more than yours, my offset is 1,35mm that's around 52 thou for the imperial guys.

You want even have to change your switch offset, you're close enough to the default switch offset that you wont have to mess with changing it..
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Re: torch reference question.

Post by cruz »

well since the offset is in the normal range according to djreiswig,
i'm gonna live everything like it is now.
up until now everything is working good and accurate.

do i need to mark this as solved or something?

thanks everybody who helped on this issue.
kinda of fantastic to have a source of information and help :D .
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