New to CNC from Australia

[ShowbizAsh]

Hello I am from Australia and a newby to CNC plasma. I come from a family of showbuisiness people mostly on the Circus side with producing shows and performing. I also am a rigger (advanced Aust) having rigged for big stadium concerts and theatre which has given me a lot of experience to add to my Circus rigging. Here in Melbourne we have been in covid 19 lockdown for longer than any other city in the world, it ends this week and will total 269 days since March 2020. Crazy realy considering our low numbers. Maybe thats why we have the low numbers however im not here to debate about that. Because of Covid the the arts industry here is in total shambles and we have yet to rebuild. As for myself, I have had to take on work out of the industry interstate truck driving.

Along with Circus and the Arts I have always had an interest in metal welding having built my own props and between contracts building equipent for all of the industry. Now I am steping that up and purchasing my first CNC plasma. My head is bursting with new ideas for ways of building new acts and just need to get them out there. Of course I realise I have a big learning curve ahead and because of our sitch I will look at all types of plasma cutting work for new revenue and getting started.

Looking forward to everyones input here.

[adbuch]

Welcome aboard! With your background in building props and equipment, you will certainly have a "leg up" on the learning process for other types of creative craftsmanship. A cnc plasma cutting table can really open up the doors for adding new and exciting production methods to your arsenal of expertise. There will still me much to learn - both in the design/software arena as well as the actual equipment you will use. What particular brands of tables and cutters are you considering? Turn-key, of more of a DIY (do it yourself) approach? There are many here with a wealth of knowledge and experience with both hardware approaches, as well as the different cad/cam software programs that you will have to choose from. You can use the search function to find specific topics or information you are looking for, as well as many ideas for finished parts and projects as well as cut files. Good luck!
David

[ShowbizAsh]

Hi Thanks for the reply. I am looking at a small table as I will be building a mobile workshop from a shipping container. This way I can see more of my people as the majority of them travel. I will also get the largest single phase plasma I can get in 240volt. Power at times can be an issue but I intend to get a generator as well. I am looking at the Hypertherm 45 plasma but am trying to get it at the right price. The company I’m looking at is offering me the The UniMig Razorcut 45 which is less than half the price of the Hypertherm but I’m not convinced it’s a good machine. The Hypertherm apparently can have an etching/engraving attachment which would be great for my logo etc.

The table I’m looking at is takes a sheet size 1200mm x 2000mm so 4” x about 7”8. Intecut 3 water table with fast cam and fast nest software. Not ideal as the small sheet sizes are 8”x”4 and do will likely be cutting the excess off. The problem we have in Australia is the high cost of importing. Mostly it’s American or Chinese, the Chinese is hit or miss if you get a good product and the American is very expensive here. I am now just waiting for our lockdown to finish so I can drive to a satellite City, Sheparton about 2 hours away to go check out the tables etc.

[Rodw]

welcome to the forum. There are a few of us Aussies here. I'm in Brisbane.

One person I know has the Unimig Razr and is happy with it but if you can afford it, the Hypertherm is a much better option.

I would suggest you keep looking for tables. The one you are looking at is based on a portable track based plasma cutter made in China bolted to a table. Many of the Chinese plasma cutters (certainly the Intecut 3 and possibly the others sold by the same company) do not have a stepper motor or servo on the Z axis torch lifter. Instead they use a geared 24 v motor that cannot accurately set the pierce height as all it can do is run for a set time after it probes to find the surface. This does not give the precise heights you need. Once its cutting and you know the precise voltage it should be cutting at it probably can track the material height OK if it starts out close, it should adjust itself. But generally we don't know that voltage. On my table I always auto sample the torch voltage at the exact torch height I want to run at. There was thread here recently by a user with this exact problem (lack of accurate pierce height).

If you still had some time in lockdown left, you could look at building your own table. That will be easy for you but you will need to know a bit about electronics to wire up a controller. I use Linuxcnc which does the torch height control internally so there is no need for an external THC.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

G' Day Mate!

Like posted Hypertherm is the best but exchange rates make them even more, do your research and think about building your own. Plenty of help to be found here. I have also thought about the portable table system, have it swing down from one side of the trailer. Go to Torchmates site they rigged one in a trailer for the gold rush crew in Alaska..

Cheers

[ShowbizAsh]

Thanks Rodw and Segoman

I appreciate the input. Quick question would either of you have a spreadsheet to suit CNC plasma pricing with Metric? I’m having problems converting one to Metric and our dollars. Ash

[Rodw]

Look I don't really charge for my work becasue I make parts I sell for 4WD's So I don't price things often. You are better off setting your own rates. As a manufacturer, you only have one KPI to monitor and that is gross margin per hour. Thats your net profit on each hour you spend on the job. That should cover a wage to you and all your overheads like electricity for the plasma and your compressor.

So now set your hourly rate. Is it $20 or $120? Just set one rate for your shop. At the end of the day, this is what you need to be making after all inputs steel and consumables. Think in terms of decimal hours and charge your time out in 6 minute blocks. Say your rate is $120 an hour, thats $12 per block of six minutes. Thats what you charge.

So the next thing is to think in terms of operations and operations per hour and convert that to a dollar value..
What do you allow for a setup charge to get ready for a job? is it 6,12 or 18 minutes? Does it change with different jobs? How many pierce per hour? What is your consumable cost per pierce? (pierces are where consumables are mostly consumed), How many metres can you cut in an hour including rapids. How long does a pierce take? What is your standard markup for material? It needs to be at least 50% and include an allowance for wastage.

So armed with all this you can quote a job pretty easily.
1. How much programming time? Don't give this away!
2. How much setup time? Maybe there is a standard charge (time) per job.
3 How many pierces?
4. How many metres will you cut?
5. What are your post processing operations? How long will they take?
6 What are the consumable costs?
7. What are the material costs?

So add it all up and thats your quote.
But finally and most importantly, measure each job and calculate your gross margin per hour that you actually got and then look at what you got wrong and fix it for next time. Its best to measure this weekly (over all jobs you did). If your target was $120 and you only got $80 an hour that week, where did you go wrong and how will you fix it? At the end of the week, we don't want you to find out you were only working for $10 an hour. eg. You might find that you are charging $20 for setup but the data says you should be charging $50. Fix your rate!

We did this and it made an enormous difference. There was one charge we never charged for becaue we did not think we could get away with it in our market until an employee gave us a hard time over it because it was affecting the gross margin in his department. So we decided to put $10 on it (when it should have been $30). Once we got confident in selling that charge, we increased the rate to $35.

[ShowbizAsh]

Thanks Rod this all gives me a great reference. I am a big fan of spreadsheets so I might go by this and write my own spreadsheet up for pricing.
Great stuff

[Rodw]

Thanks Rod this all gives me a great reference. I am a big fan of spreadsheets so I might go by this and write my own spreadsheet up for pricing.
Great stuff

Thats a much better idea as you will understand your pricing model.
But more importantly own it so you can keep pricing current.

[SegoMan DeSigns]

ShowBizAsh,

I just sent you a PM.

[Rnjfab]

welcome to the forum. There are a few of us Aussies here. I'm in Brisbane.

One person I know has the Unimig Razr and is happy with it but if you can afford it, the Hypertherm is a much better option.

I'm That guy !!

I do have the Unimig Cut45. It was $1200 delivered. The XP45 Hypertherm I was quoted at $6500, I just didn't have that coin available.

The Unimig is a great little machine and works on my home made table quite well. We have some sub standard power out here in the bush (10+ days a year without power, regular dropouts, power fluctuations - this blows up our water pumps and electrical appliances each year), and can get the little unimig cutting 10mm steel pretty cleanly for small jobs. Most of our work is on material from 1.2mm - 6mm, for signs and brackets and no problems with this.

I did make a lot of mistakes building my table that have cost quite a bit to get right. Do a lot of research, an extra $100 now on BOB or software can save you $$$$ later as your machine evolved to keep up with your learning. Knowing what I do now, I'm planning the next table, and once this table has paid it's self off and made some money back, and we have the space available, I'll be able to start on the next one.