Let's Help a Guy DOWN UNDER

[Joe Jones]

I have been in contact with a man who is being offered a good deal on a Samson 510 table in Australia. He is anxious to buy the machine, but well ... here is his latest email.

I don't know if Mick is still here, or if there are other Aussie's on this forum, but I would like someone to contact him about this, to tell him what the situation is with PlasmaCam , the DesignEdge software and parts and service availability in Australia.

I am confident that he would be happy with the table, BUT I do not know the situation with PlasmaCam sales and support in Australia. If it is "email only" or "snail mail only" support, I will caution him about this.

Who can contact him and help him make an informed decision?

Joe

Howdy Joe,
I "met" with the blokes who are selling the Samson 510 today.

I'll summarise the 20-minute chat.
The sale includes everything - computer, Hypertherm 85, software, table, drier, compressor - the whole package that was bought 3 years ago
It's 3 years old. It was used for 18 months, cutting aluminum up to 6mm thick.
It's been sitting idle for the last 18 months.
There are no software upgrades at all
No money owing, they paid cash. (Turns out the people selling it are actually quite a large local business).
The table is currently packed up, they welcomed an inspection from me, but it's just going to be bits of steel in a crate, so no point really.
They said it was working perfectly before they stopped using it.
They stopped using it because they bought CNC routers for their aluminum fabrication business.
I'm reasonably keen on it - the original purchase price was $48,000, I can buy for $18,000.

(NOTE: Those are Aussie Dollars.)

However, from what I can find online - there's no one in Australia selling the Samson510, there's no one selling the Design Edge software, or updates in Australia, and I'm very concerned that I might be buying a machine & software that is on it's way out, or support locally is unavailable.

Of the three companies I've found online that deal with Samson / Plasmacam - 2 have closed down, and the last one is the original seller of this machine, and now they don't sell the Samson510, they have their own models/brand.

With a Hypertherm 85, I would need to install 3 phase power to the shed as well.

(I think he is wrong about that.)

I'm really wavering on the fence here mate really want it, but really concerned about the fact that no else I can find locally, is using the table or software.

Interested to hear your thoughts mate, and your time is appreciated, once again.

Kind Regards,
Jeff & Nikki
0419622883

[rdj357]

Replied on the Owner's Community - basically correct that 2 of the 3 distributors closed their doors and the third (Jaymac) is selling parts last I knew but don't know if that continues or if it is just remaining stock.

[34by151]

I would not pay anywhere near 18K for that table here in OZ.
That being said Jaymac or US direct are his options for parts

Where are they located?
I can offer QLD based support and training
I do that for a number of tables using many different control systems including a few 510''s

[Joe Jones]

I would not pay anywhere near 18K for that table here in OZ.
That being said Jaymac or US direct are his options for parts

Where are they located?
I can offer QLD based support and training
I do that for a number of tables using many different control systems including a few 510''s

His phone number is in the post.

Really? $18K(aus) for the table, the computer, the software, the compressor, the Hypertherm 85 plasma machine and torch, the air drier .. that isn't worth $18Kaus?

If you are there, you might give him a call. As for parts, the Samson table parts are ONLY available through PlasmaCam.

Joe


.

[34by151]

Really? $18K(aus) for the table, the computer, the software, the compressor, the Hypertherm 85 plasma machine and torch, the air drier .. that isn't worth $18Kaus?

Im sure someone will pay that but Id be offering less than half that.

[Joe Jones]

Im sure someone will pay that but Id be offering less than half that.

Do you realize that $18K in Aussie dollars is only a little over $12K in U.S. Dollars? Are you saying you would only offer $6K for the table, the software, the compressor, the Hypertherm 85 plasma cutter and the air drier?

Joe

[rdj357]

That would be a pretty tough to take offer since the Hypertherm is easily worth half of the offer. Fair enough that one person's offer would be that - it's only worth what someone is willing to pay (to that same person) but I can tell you that my answer wouldn't be very polite if I were the seller and got that offer directly. LOL

[Joe Jones]

That would be a pretty tough to take offer since the Hypertherm is easily worth half of the offer. Fair enough that one person's offer would be that - it's only worth what someone is willing to pay (to that same person) but I can tell you that my answer wouldn't be very polite if I were the seller and got that offer directly. LOL

I think he was imagining paying $18K in U.S. Dollars, which still wouldn't be out of line IMHO. The table with the basic software, the compressor, the HT 85, and the air drier ... If the table was in GOOD condition, and I wanted a Samson 510 table, and I was willing to dump another $6K ??? into software upgrades, and I had a business that would actually generate income from the investment, I wouldn't balk at the price.

The seller is in a bad position. He has a "White Elephant." It is a good table which needs more software upgrades to be effective, and there is NO support for a PlasmaCam in his country. PlasmaCam would probably restrict support to Emails, and a downed table means MONTHS awaiting new parts, if they arrive at all. If I were in Australia, knowing what I know about the table and software, AND I had the money to stock replacement motors, controllers, belts, bearings, grate slates, etc. etc. for future needs, I would certainly buy it THERE.

I am actually interested in the table, but the cost of shipping it from AUS to USA would be prohibitive!

Joe

[34by151]

Do you realize that $18K in Aussie dollars is only a little over $12K in U.S. Dollars? Are you saying you would only offer $6K for the table, the software, the compressor, the Hypertherm 85 plasma cutter and the air drier?

I live in OZ so a US dont matter. 18K is 18K

Not to offend you joe I know you like the plasmcam stuff but I dont share you opinion
I look at how much it will cost me to refurbish and sell on
Id get rid of the control system as well

So top dollar for a T85, 3K
I can buy a 10hp compressor and AC dryer new for for 2K
So yes 6-7 is the max id pay

Ive had an sold a sampson, not an easy sell sell in OZ for a bunch of reasons.

[Joe Jones]

I live in OZ so a US dont matter. 18K is 18K

Hmmm... Today, on the Net ...

AUS USD RATE.jpg

Not to offend you joe I know you like the plasmcam stuff but I dont share you opinion

That is what makes the world so interesting! I happen to think that Sandra Bullock is beautiful! but I can find lots of guys who do not share my opinion on that either. No problemo.

I look at how much it will cost me to refurbish and sell on
Id get rid of the control system as well

No offense taken! Some guys prefer to have micro control over the entire cutting process. Mach 3 gives you a screen packed with dancing numbers, and alphanumeric characters, and flashing lights, and you can tweak this, and tinker with that ... Other guys want to click CUT and allow the machine and the software to handle all of the rest. It is the HARLEY vs HONDA mindset. To each, his own.

So top dollar for a T85, 3K
I can buy a 10hp compressor and AC dryer new for for 2K
So yes 6-7 is the max id pay

I will take you at your word. The potential buyer said the original owner spent $48K on the entire setup. $33,000.00us (48K x .69) is about right for the table, the compressor, the drier, and the HT85, here in America. So the numbers don't add up for me.

Everyone places their own value on things. I am guessing that you would never be able to buy that table and the extras for 6 or 7, but I respect your steadfast position on the price.

Ive had an sold a sampson, not an easy sell sell in OZ for a bunch of reasons.

Mostly, the lack of LOCAL support, scarcity of parts, and everything related to running a "White Elephant" CNC plasma table in a shop over there, I'll bet.

Joe

[adbuch]

Do you realize that $18K in Aussie dollars is only a little over $12K in U.S. Dollars? Are you saying you would only offer $6K for the table, the software, the compressor, the Hypertherm 85 plasma cutter and the air drier?

I live in OZ so a US dont matter. 18K is 18K

Not to offend you joe I know you like the plasmcam stuff but I dont share you opinion
I look at how much it will cost me to refurbish and sell on
Id get rid of the control system as well

So top dollar for a T85, 3K
I can buy a 10hp compressor and AC dryer new for for 2K
So yes 6-7 is the max id pay

Ive had an sold a sampson, not an easy sell sell in OZ for a bunch of reasons.

This all makes perfect sense to me. Unless that Sampson is new and working flawlessly, refurbishment + replacement parts will cost a small fortune, particularly with the overseas shipping costs.
David

[rdj357]

Wow the resale economy must really be in the crapper if a 3-year old Powermax 85 with a torch is only worth 'top dollar' the equivalent of US$2,000. Currently shows AUD$8,650 +GST for a new SYNC85 from an AUS online welding supply. A new 10hp compressor with refrigerated drier for the equivalent of US$1,400, that's awesome.

Anyway, this has been an interesting discussion but has nowhere to go from here so moving on.

[34by151]

As an example, there is a downdraft 1500x3000 table for sale locally for 5Kaus. No plasma but downdraft motors and piping, computer, software and a functional control system included.

There is another 1300x2500 water table with HT45 computer and software, asking 6k

3Yr old sync (it wont be a sync) purchased for 8650
GST is claimed back as a business (input cost)
$2568 is reduced from your tax (30% tax on profits)
Depreciation 60% Year1, 15%each following year
So book value of $2191 at year3 less the $2568 tax deduction
Value for the business is <0
Not replacing it after 3 years is actually costing

In other words its worth a bit less than 1/2 new if its still "new in box"
Value goes down from there

Running the numbers another way
If he paid 48K for the setup 3 years ago
48K - GST refund - Depreciation refunds over 3 years = 11K depreciation value
Add in the initial tax reduction of 13K
Value to business = -2K

So yeah no way Id pay 18K for it, others may though

[Joe Jones]

Your numbers are funky. If he is a business, and he buys the table, you cannot say that all of the value was removed from the last business purchase and depreciation. If he buys it for $18K au, he ALSO gets to go through the depreciation process of the used machine his business purchased. You seem to want to ignore that. It does not matter if the table has depreciated to ZERO on his business books. The fact is, the table still have value. You cannot expect him to sell it for ten dollars, just because he has written off the depreciation through his taxes. Which machines in YOUR shop are you willing to sell for the price of a jelly donut? Even though YOU have enjoyed the depreciation and the tax write off, I dare say you would STILL tell people about the valuable still in the machines YOU want to sell.

Joe

[Duaneo]

Hey Gang!
As a fellow "down under" plasmacam/samson510 guy, I can tell you the following.

I bought my system from Jaymac 8 years ago.
I wanted to buy a new Plasmacam/samson510 system last year, and was told they no longer sell them and recommended their "weldclass" system which "was just as good" - its sits in my shop as an ornament, as we cannot get the table to work properly. Their after-sales service is lacking, to the point I told them if anyone was looking for a table/system they could take it off my hands. Very disappointed and very out of pocket.

In the process of trying to repair my old plasmacam/samson510 system, they are useless. I have had more help in the forum in a single call for help than I got from them after spending another 15K in parts and countless phonecalls.

There is no one here I can find that has any idea about these systems.

If your guy needs help getting good cuts, programming and cut settings.....I am your guy in Australia. But if it is about the finer working of the machine (like repairing one) I am still learning.

For 18K I would buy that machine tomorrow if its fully operational.

AND 48K is the accurate going price for that system brand new through Jaymac.

[Joe Jones]

I live in OZ so a US dont matter. 18K is 18K

So top dollar for a T85, 3K
I can buy a 10hp compressor and AC dryer new for for 2K
So yes 6-7 is the max id pay

Hey Gang!
As a fellow "down under" plasmacam/samson510 guy, I can tell you the following.

I bought my system from Jaymac 8 years ago.
I wanted to buy a new Plasmacam/samson510 system last year, and was told they no longer sell them and recommended their "weldclass" system which "was just as good" - its sits in my shop as an ornament, as we cannot get the table to work properly. Their after-sales service is lacking, to the point I told them if anyone was looking for a table/system they could take it off my hands. Very disappointed and very out of pocket.

For 18K I would buy that machine tomorrow if its fully operational.

AND 48K is the accurate going price for that system brand new through Jaymac.

Thank you for clarifying that!

I wish I could fly down there to help you. I am positive I could get you up and running with your Samson, and show you how to fix the 100 most common $%^&* problems that crop up with the tables.

Robert J. or John D. are two more people who could solve your problems for you. But an 18 hour flight, hotel, food, etc. would be a COSTLY "house call."

Joe

[abmetal]

Joe,
That's no step for a stepper. Put pontoons and a paddle tire on the GW!

Allen

[Joe Jones]

Joe,
That's no step for a stepper. Put pontoons and a paddle tire on the GW!

Allen

Huh?!? It might be worth the trip! I hear that the ratio of females to males in OZ is decidedly favorable!

34by151 seems to be able to circumvent the international currency exchange, as he states that a AUD is equal to a USD. Also, his prices completely ignore the COST of getting the Samson table from America to AUS, with whatever shipping costs, import fees, tariffs, or whatever may also be applied to such a transaction. I don't mind someone publicly declaring their contempt for PlasmaCam, but I like to see FACTS in posts, not fantasy.

If it take 1.47 AUD to buy something that you can buy for $1.00 USD, then the numbers make sense, because in the USA, we can buy that setup as described for around $32K which would be around 48K AUD.

USD TO AUD 09-01-22.jpg

[34by151]

Joe I I said I live in OZ, So 18KAud is 18KAud. USD is irrelevant you can convert it to USD is you like

I can sell you a new table for 48K, 58K or even 100K. Does not mean its a good price for what your getting
It also does not mean it worth that to on sell second hand.

I suggest you buy it and try to on sell it
Sounds like you know more about condition in OZ than me

Also I never said I had contempt for plasmacam, I said I was not a fan
If you want to debate the pro's and cons of plasmacam i'd love to do that in another thread

Ive given you the facts take them or leave them but a personal attack is out of order

[Joe Jones]

I did not attack you. You stated that "I live in OZ so US doesn't matter. 18K is 18K." That SOUNDED like you were comparing 18K in USD to 18K in AUS. Sorry if I read it wrong.

Still, I am perplexed by your statement, "I can buy a 10hp compressor and AC dryer new for for 2K". Given the exchange rate, you are saying YOU can buy a 10 HP compressor AND an air drier for about $1,360.00 USD. I just don't see how that is possible. I certainly cannot do that HERE. A 10 HP compressor with an air drier HERE is about $10,000.00us.

You should be a rich man, providing those fantastic deals to the folks in your country, because you are apparently the ONLY person who can pay such low prices.

Joe

[adbuch]

Ive given you the facts take them or leave them but a personal attack is out of order

Very much agree! But it's hard to successfully reason with an "Expert".

[34by151]

Joe you obviously have more knowledge about my country than I do

I just checked my Buy price
10Hp 45Cfm Compressor + AC Dryer (70cfm) is just over 2K

And no im not paying 15K aud (10K USD) retail for it, im a dealer

[cutnweld]

Also I never said I had contempt for plasmacam, I said I was not a fan
If you want to debate the pro's and cons of plasmacam i'd love to do that in another thread

Ive given you the facts take them or leave them but a personal attack is out of order

It would be interesting to discuss the pros and cons of different software-control systems out there. Barbs aside, just an honest conversation. I find the plasma world an interesting one

[34by151]

It would be interesting to discuss the pros and cons of different software-control systems out there.

Agreed.

I have done a lot of training courses on lots of different machines.
Pro and Cons for all of them.
Not just the control software though starts with the machine design and placement, then the control and software, finally service and support.

For example does your machine have a parking area and do you need one.
For me the answer is yes so can swing in heavy 20mm sheets with the fork without hitting the gantry. Also makes it very easy to place and align the sheet. Heavy sheet is a pain if you have manoeuvre it under the gantry.
If your only doing artwork (light sheets) a parking area is not needed or a nice to have.

And the list goes on long before you get to the control system

[Joe Jones]

Joe you obviously have more knowledge about my country than I do

I just checked my Buy price
10Hp 45Cfm Compressor + AC Dryer (70cfm) is just over 2K

And no im not paying 15K aud (10K USD) retail for it, im a dealer

Joe