Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by adbuch »

LucasWorx wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:34 pm I think that's one of the things I tried already, but after zip tying the trigger and turning on the machine, it triggered the 0-51 fault indicating trigger pull at start....which it shouldn't do because it should think it's a machine torch at that point. That's where I kept getting stuck. I'll try it one more time tomorrow and make sure I didn't jump the wrong one but I think I've gone back and forth between the orange, purple and yellow trying to get that result with no success.
The purple trigger wire is the one you want to use.
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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by tinspark »

LucasWorx wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:22 pm
tinspark wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:57 pm I use the hand torch on my machine and it has never been a problem.
I spent a little bit of time squaring everything up and check it now and then without any real issues.
I did purchase a 2nd hand torch so that I wouldn't have to dismantle the torch from the carriage each time that I wanted to use it. I just use the jumper lead that plasmacam provided to activate the 2nd hand torch. I
It works great for my needs!
Are you using it through a CPC port? It turns out that I am still having an issue. I can't get this thing to fire or pulse through plasmac no matter what I do. I know I'm missing something. I just can't seem to figure it out. I have moved the pin, jumped them together, still with no luck. I was going off of these directions:
https://forum.langmuirsystems.com/t/ntk ... ained/1060

I'm wondering if I need to get the #3 and #4 wires from the CPC port and run them to the torch somehow so that the Mesa can turn the torch on, but being a CPC port, I kinda figure that it should already be wired into those inside the machine.
Nope, that is for a machine torch.
Just purchase the $59 cable and dont look back!
Mine works great and never has given me any problems
https://www.plasmaspider.com/download/f ... &mode=view

Also, the Video Manual disc is a good resource, and for $10 they will walk you through it
I have a construction/ welding background not electrical, or electronics and I had no problem getting things working.
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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by djreiswig »

LucasWorx wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:34 pm I think that's one of the things I tried already, but after zip tying the trigger and turning on the machine, it triggered the 0-51 fault indicating trigger pull at start....which it shouldn't do because it should think it's a machine torch at that point. That's where I kept getting stuck. I'll try it one more time tomorrow and make sure I didn't jump the wrong one but I think I've gone back and forth between the orange, purple and yellow trying to get that result with no success.
Try it without the trigger zip tied. I think it's seeing the trigger input, which the machine torch doesn't have, along with the machine torch input.
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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by LucasWorx »

I have tried jumping the purple and orange wires, the purple and yellow wires, the orange and yellow wires, nothing works. The torch continuously gives me the 0-51 fault when turned on. If the wiring kit that Tin Spark was walking about will work then maybe I'll have to do that because apparently this machine is not able to be jumpered like I have seen others talk about in other posts. I have tried literally every combination of wiring with no progress.
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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by adbuch »

tinspark wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:11 am
LucasWorx wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:22 pm
tinspark wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:57 pm I use the hand torch on my machine and it has never been a problem.
I spent a little bit of time squaring everything up and check it now and then without any real issues.
I did purchase a 2nd hand torch so that I wouldn't have to dismantle the torch from the carriage each time that I wanted to use it. I just use the jumper lead that plasmacam provided to activate the 2nd hand torch. I
It works great for my needs!
Are you using it through a CPC port? It turns out that I am still having an issue. I can't get this thing to fire or pulse through plasmac no matter what I do. I know I'm missing something. I just can't seem to figure it out. I have moved the pin, jumped them together, still with no luck. I was going off of these directions:
https://forum.langmuirsystems.com/t/ntk ... ained/1060

I'm wondering if I need to get the #3 and #4 wires from the CPC port and run them to the torch somehow so that the Mesa can turn the torch on, but being a CPC port, I kinda figure that it should already be wired into those inside the machine.
Nope, that is for a machine torch.
Just purchase the $59 cable and dont look back!
Mine works great and never has given me any problems
https://www.plasmaspider.com/download/f ... &mode=view

Also, the Video Manual disc is a good resource, and for $10 they will walk you through it
I have a construction/ welding background not electrical, or electronics and I had no problem getting things working.
https://owners-community.com/order_parts.php?sid=
Tim - that is great advise. He doesn't have a Plasmacam table, so has no access to the Plasmacam forum. But it sounds like you are using the Plasmacam torch control cable just as I am. Cut and splice. It also sounds like he may be overseas. I don't think he has said exactly where he is located.
David

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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by adbuch »

LucasWorx wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:38 am I have tried jumping the purple and orange wires, the purple and yellow wires, the orange and yellow wires, nothing works. The torch continuously gives me the 0-51 fault when turned on. If the wiring kit that Tin Spark was walking about will work then maybe I'll have to do that because apparently this machine is not able to be jumpered like I have seen others talk about in other posts. I have tried literally every combination of wiring with no progress.
Where are you located? USA or overseas?
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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by LucasWorx »

Texas. Definitely not overseas. lol
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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by LucasWorx »

I just wasn't sure how the plasmacam wire would hook up to my CPC port or if it ran separately. I apologize for being in the wrong section of the forum but I was just trying to add onto the current thread rather than create a new one about the same thing. You guys have been awesome though. I definitely appreciate your help and support.
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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by rdj357 »

LucasWorx wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:38 am I have tried jumping the purple and orange wires, the purple and yellow wires, the orange and yellow wires, nothing works. The torch continuously gives me the 0-51 fault when turned on. If the wiring kit that Tin Spark was walking about will work then maybe I'll have to do that because apparently this machine is not able to be jumpered like I have seen others talk about in other posts. I have tried literally every combination of wiring with no progress.
So you tried cutting the purple wire and wiring pins 3 and 4 in series and zip tying the trigger as I recommended and it still didn’t work? :-|

There’s a lot of noise on this thread making this far more complicated than it actually is. You won’t get a 0-51 error with this configuration unless your plasma controller has pins 3-4 closed. If you suspect this, put it back this way and unplug the CPC. Turn on the torch, there should be no error, plug in the CPC. If it fires then your problem is in the wiring/control going to the Hypertherm and not inside it.
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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by LucasWorx »

rdj357 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:09 am
So you tried cutting the purple wire and wiring pins 3 and 4 in series and zip tying the trigger as I recommended and it still didn’t work? :-|

There’s a lot of noise on this thread making this far more complicated than it actually is. You won’t get a 0-51 error with this configuration unless your plasma controller has pins 3-4 closed. If you suspect this, put it back this way and unplug the CPC. Turn on the torch, there should be no error, plug in the CPC. If it fires then your problem is in the wiring/control going to the Hypertherm and not inside it.
No sir, not quite. That was my intent, but I kept getting stuck on the fact that I should have just been able to jumper 2 wires and have it work. I was trying to get by with not splicing into the internal wires but that is probably the correct method at this point. Like many, I've decided to just man up and buy the machine torch. $615 from Baker's Gas and welding. F*** it. Hopefully it will pay for itself when I get the table going. At least I'll still be able to use the hand torch if I need to I suppose.
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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by adbuch »

LucasWorx wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:57 am I just wasn't sure how the plasmacam wire would hook up to my CPC port or if it ran separately. I apologize for being in the wrong section of the forum but I was just trying to add onto the current thread rather than create a new one about the same thing. You guys have been awesome though. I definitely appreciate your help and support.
The Plasmacam torch control cable that Tim sited is probably not what you need. It has a build in voltage divider most likely not applicable to your system, plus the connector end is specific to the Plasmacam controller. It would be easy enough for you to duplicate it less the voltage divider and end, but then it is basically 4 wires - two for trigger and two for arc voltage. I would recommend that you study Robert's response.
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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by rdj357 »

LucasWorx wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:20 am
rdj357 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:09 am
So you tried cutting the purple wire and wiring pins 3 and 4 in series and zip tying the trigger as I recommended and it still didn’t work? :-|

There’s a lot of noise on this thread making this far more complicated than it actually is. You won’t get a 0-51 error with this configuration unless your plasma controller has pins 3-4 closed. If you suspect this, put it back this way and unplug the CPC. Turn on the torch, there should be no error, plug in the CPC. If it fires then your problem is in the wiring/control going to the Hypertherm and not inside it.
No sir, not quite. That was my intent, but I kept getting stuck on the fact that I should have just been able to jumper 2 wires and have it work. I was trying to get by with not splicing into the internal wires but that is probably the correct method at this point. Like many, I've decided to just man up and buy the machine torch. $615 from Baker's Gas and welding. F*** it. Hopefully it will pay for itself when I get the table going. At least I'll still be able to use the hand torch if I need to I suppose.
#1 - You will definitely enjoy the machine torch over a hand torch every day of the week. Given the choice, I don't see why anyone stays with a hand torch on a CNC table. One of the best things I ever did was to switch to a machine torch on a magnetic breakaway mount.

#2 - For information and posterity - If one is so allergic to the easiest solution (wiring the trigger circuit in series with the purple wire and zip tying the trigger) then the only other option would be to splice into both sides of the trigger circuit.

Here is the wiring diagram for that - I'm not sure how it is less intrusive to splice into these wires than it is to cut a purple wire unless you make a breakout plug for J19 but as it shows, the violet wire and the orange wire are the 2 wires that go to the trigger. If you connected CPC pin 3 to orange (pin 7 on the torch socket or pin 2 on J19) and CPC pin 4 to violet (pin 6 on the torch socket or pin 3 on J19) then did NOT zip tie the trigger, the switch in your machine control at the other end of the CPC would fire the hand torch. The only thing I see that this would do is bypass the lock switch for the trigger circuit but I don't see how that would have much effect since the cap switch would still drop signal to pin 5 of the torch socket telling the machine that there is a cap fault if one existed. Since technically, safety switches in the torch handle are being bypassed by this setup, I'm sure that is a primary reason that manufacturers and people (myself included) do not recommend it. I put a red dot on the connection inside the torch handle that would be ideal to connect to rather than the orange wire since it's on either side of the actual trigger switch but as you can probably see, it is not accessible in the plug or internal wiring of the power supply.
45XP Hand Torch Plug.jpg
Anyway, you won't regret the machine torch! If you need a universal magnetic mount, I have Snap'NCut mounts for $235 ! :-P

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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by LucasWorx »

Robert, where were you with that diagram yesterday!?? Hahaha, I'm jk. It's probably in the manual but I didn't dig deep enough to see it. No worries. I have a torch holder with floating switch but do not yet have the magnetic break away. That will probably be the next future upgrade. Does the snapNcut have a switch built in?
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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by djreiswig »

Like I said. If you jump the orange and yellow you tell it your torch is a machine torch. No need to tie the trigger and no need to mess with the CPC wiring, no need to cut wires.
But you will definitely like the machine torch and also having your hand torch not tied to your table.
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Re: Upgraded to 45xp and torch wont fire

Post by rdj357 »

No, the Snap'NCut has no built in switch so that would have to be part of the Z axis for it to work.
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