Newbie from Middle America

[madmarc87]

Hey everyone, I'm Tim very new to plasma cnc tables! Little experience other than occasional use of a plasma cutter, no experience with cnc at all! I am tired of working for others looking to teach myself how to use one of these to start a side hustle and possibly in the future a full-time gig. With that being said, I'm looking for advice on a 4'x8' table under $10k? The best quality, software, and customer support I can get for my money is what I'm looking for advice on. I've been looking at the Crossfire XR and Stv SparX 4'x8' over Eagle plasma,Go Fab, or premiere plasma. I've looked at all these for months hard to tell the difference for someone who doesn't know much about the subject, so I would welcome any advice on making this purchase!

[adbuch]

Welcome aboard! I have heard nothing but good things from the Langmuir table owners, so for an entry level table that would probably be my first choice. What materials and thicknesses to you plan to cut? What plasma cutter are you considering? You can't go wrong with one from Hypertherm, but of course there are less expensive cutters out there as well. I would recommend that you join the Langmuir owners group forum to get some feedback from actual owners and to find out which plasma cutters they prefer.

https://forum.langmuirsystems.com/

Also, to gain the most from this site and have full access to all the photos, cut files, etc. I would encourage you to become a Contributing member here. The $20 cost is a great bargain considering all this site has to offer.

https://www.plasmaspider.com/memberupgrade.php

David

[acourtjester]

Welcome aboard Tim, David's suggestion is spot on, Do use the search function here (upper right) and check on any table you are looking at. Some of those you list do not fair well over time. If possible find a local for an eyes on visit (tire kicking), sales pitches are not always the best. This site have been here a while and many experienced users have posted their views about some tables. For someone just getting in things to look at are the software, and electronics that are packaged with them. Some companies have restrictive software which limit file import/exports, you want to be free to gather or create files for projects. With a membership here you will be able to download a great number of cuttable files for free.

[Joe Jones]

Hi Tim,

I cannot speak to the other table manufacturers. Some of them are good, while others have proven to be regrettable mistakes. I hear good thing about the Langmuir tables, but ... the TABLES ... not the software so much.

Predictably, I CAN endorse the PlasmaCam tables, the DHC2 4x4, the "Big Brother" Samson 510 table, and their little Bro', the Go Torch. Each of them is customizable in size via a $998.00 software upgrade. The tables are functional, and designed to be "adequately functionally minimal" in construction. They work well, but some people want to beat their chests and say a plasma table isn't a "real" table unless it is made from railroad tracks and steel girders, and three people died welding it together. The PlasmaCam tables are fine for their intended purposes, but they seem to offend those who must feed their 'macho' a steady diet of testosterone.

The thorn in people's sides is PlasmaCam's business model. They sell you a table with BASIC software that honestly doesn't do much of anything. You can load a DXF file into the software and cut it on the table. That is about it. I believe you also get BASIC DESIGN software, which is okay, but Advanced Design does so much more!

If you WANT additional capabilities and functions, they all come at a separate cost. Some software (SolidWorks, Adobe Illustrator, AutoCAD, etc.) is expensive and includes EVERYTHING. PlasmaCam sells their software as individual "upgrades" and just like Liberty Mutual, "You only pay for what you need."

You can add Advanced Design, Basic or Advanced Height Control , Advanced Machine Control, Automatic Nesting, 3D capability (Truly, 2-1/2D), Customizable Size Upgrade, Metric Units (almost NO ONE needs this upgrade), and a pipe cutting option that I advise AGAINST, unless you are willing to invest about $4K MORE to make it work correctly. I will explain that later.

My 510 table has the Full Monty of upgrades, and ten seats. I had plans for a Bed-and-Breakfast PlasmaCam Weekend Training Seminar here at my home workshops, but life got in the way, and plans changed.

Before you buy ANY table, decide what you will do with it NOW, and in the future. A 4x8 format is preferable to a 4x4. A 4x4 PlasmaCam is actually 5x5 footprint, and needs at least a 9'x13' space IF you are going to put the back of the table against a wall. If you want to pass sheet metal across the grates (called "tiling") you will need an additional 5 or six feet at the rear of the table as well.

Not many people have the physical space for a 510 table, which is actually 6x11 feet, and requires some 266 square feet of floor space (14 x 19) for a good experience. This gives you four feet of space around the entire table. Even that is a tight setup, as more space is better.

I do like the DesignEdge software. That is proprietary software that ONLY runs the PlasmaCam tables, and it is not "industry standard." It truly does have THE EDGE over other software options. Yes, most of the world uses the industry standard Mach 3 or Mach 4, along with two or three (or four?) other programs, in order to take something from a napkin sketch to a finished part. They will all boast about how well they can use CorelDraw, and Inkscape, and AutoCAD, and SheetCam, and (insert another six or seven programs here) to produce parts, and a real man ONLY uses all of these other programs. No real man uses DesignEdge! There is a huge segment of the cnc plasma community that views the PlasmaCam as the retarded runt cousin of REAL plasma tables. Speaking only for myself, I have not seen anything that would convince me to change to another brand of table. The JD SQUARED tables almost got me to change, when I was having an issue with PlasmaCam, but that has all been worked out now.

So when you make your choice, do your research, and decide WHAT you want to do, and WHAT you enjoy. I can make anything with my Samson 510 table, but I am the first to admit that I did not bother to learn G-Code, and I chose not to jump through the hoops of two or three programs just to cut something on my table. I can take an idea or a sketch, and turn it into a finished product using DesignEdge ALONE. No other table can honestly offer that option.

To be completely honest, I am waiting for LASERS to come down in price. If that happens, I may sell off ALL of my plasma stuff, and buy a nice LASER table! However, I would still keep my 510 table with the DesignEdge license!

I make You Tube videos on using DesignEdge. There are currently 447 videos at this channel.



You might want to watch this video ...

Joe

[Joe Jones]

Hey everyone, I'm Tim very new to plasma cnc tables! Little experience other than occasional use of a plasma cutter, no experience with cnc at all! I am tired of working for others looking to teach myself how to use one of these to start a side hustle and possibly in the future a full-time gig.

Where are you located Tim?

Joe

[madmarc87]

Welcome aboard! I have heard nothing but good things from the Langmuir table owners, so for an entry level table, that would probably be my first choice. What materials and thicknesses to you plan to cut? What plasma cutter are you considering? You can't go wrong with one from Hypertherm, but of course there are less expensive cutters out there as well. I would recommend that you join the Langmuir owners group forum to get some feedback from actual owners and to find out which plasma cutters they prefer.

https://forum.langmuirsystems.com/

Also, to gain the most from this site and have full access to all the photos, cut files, etc. I would encourage you to become a Contributing member here. The $20 cost is a great bargain considering all this site has to offer.

https://www.plasmaspider.com/memberupgrade.php

David

Thanks for the reply, I'm looking at mostly 16ga/14ga for signs to start. I have a few people willing to pay me for cutting some custom steel targets and a friend who wants some 1/2in brakets cut if I ever get figured out. Was mostly looking at a hypertherm 45 or a primeweld 60 if I need to save a bit starting off. I know the hypertherm is worth it and I will try and get one. I was thinking about spending more upfront on the table would be more important,but hey, I could be wrong in my thinking. I'm looking to learn to be proficient on a table, hoping to eventually add a 2k-3k of income a month down the road with whatever table I buy. The Langmuir forums and stories of customer service are why they are one of two tables I'm looking at pretty seriously. The STV sparX pro 4x8 looks, and from some forums talking itt looks to be a much better table for not much more in price. Although they have a year warranty and am not sure about myplasma software. That's why I'm on here wondering what people's opinion on spending around 10k on a table. If I get a table I will definitely become a paying member!

[madmarc87]

Hi Tim,

I cannot speak to the other table manufacturers. Some of them are good, while others have proven to be regrettable mistakes. I hear good thing about the Langmuir tables, but ... the TABLES ... not the software so much.

Predictably, I CAN endorse the PlasmaCam tables, the DHC2 4x4, the "Big Brother" Samson 510 table, and their little Bro', the Go Torch. Each of them is customizable in size via a $998.00 software upgrade. The tables are functional, and designed to be "adequately functionally minimal" in construction. They work well, but some people want to beat their chests and say a plasma table isn't a "real" table unless it is made from railroad tracks and steel girders, and three people died welding it together. The PlasmaCam tables are fine for their intended purposes, but they seem to offend those who must feed their 'macho' a steady diet of testosterone.

The thorn in people's sides is PlasmaCam's business model. They sell you a table with BASIC software that honestly doesn't do much of anything. You can load a DXF file into the software and cut it on the table. That is about it. I believe you also get BASIC DESIGN software, which is okay, but Advanced Design does so much more!

If you WANT additional capabilities and functions, they all come at a separate cost. Some software (SolidWorks, Adobe Illustrator, AutoCAD, etc.) is expensive and includes EVERYTHING. PlasmaCam sells their software as individual "upgrades" and just like Liberty Mutual, "You only pay for what you need."

You can add Advanced Design, Basic or Advanced Height Control , Advanced Machine Control, Automatic Nesting, 3D capability (Truly, 2-1/2D), Customizable Size Upgrade, Metric Units (almost NO ONE needs this upgrade), and a pipe cutting option that I advise AGAINST, unless you are willing to invest about $4K MORE to make it work correctly. I will explain that later.

My 510 table has the Full Monty of upgrades, and ten seats. I had plans for a Bed-and-Breakfast PlasmaCam Weekend Training Seminar here at my home workshops, but life got in the way, and plans changed.

Before you buy ANY table, decide what you will do with it NOW, and in the future. A 4x8 format is preferable to a 4x4. A 4x4 PlasmaCam is actually 5x5 footprint, and needs at least a 9'x13' space IF you are going to put the back of the table against a wall. If you want to pass sheet metal across the grates (called "tiling") you will need an additional 5 or six feet at the rear of the table as well.

Not many people have the physical space for a 510 table, which is actually 6x11 feet, and requires some 266 square feet of floor space (14 x 19) for a good experience. This gives you four feet of space around the entire table. Even that is a tight setup, as more space is better.

I do like the DesignEdge software. That is proprietary software that ONLY runs the PlasmaCam tables, and it is not "industry standard." It truly does have THE EDGE over other software options. Yes, most of the world uses the industry standard Mach 3 or Mach 4, along with two or three (or four?) other programs, in order to take something from a napkin sketch to a finished part. They will all boast about how well they can use CorelDraw, and Inkscape, and AutoCAD, and SheetCam, and (insert another six or seven programs here) to produce parts, and a real man ONLY uses all of these other programs. No real man uses DesignEdge! There is a huge segment of the cnc plasma community that views the PlasmaCam as the retarded runt cousin of REAL plasma tables. Speaking only for myself, I have not seen anything that would convince me to change to another brand of table. The JD SQUARED tables almost got me to change, when I was having an issue with PlasmaCam, but that has all been worked out now.

So when you make your choice, do your research, and decide WHAT you want to do, and WHAT you enjoy. I can make anything with my Samson 510 table, but I am the first to admit that I did not bother to learn G-Code, and I chose not to jump through the hoops of two or three programs just to cut something on my table. I can take an idea or a sketch, and turn it into a finished product using DesignEdge ALONE. No other table can honestly offer that option.

To be completely honest, I am waiting for LASERS to come down in price. If that happens, I may sell off ALL of my plasma stuff, and buy a nice LASER table! However, I would still keep my 510 table with the DesignEdge license!

I make You Tube videos on using DesignEdge. There are currently 447 videos at this channel.



You might want to watch this video ...

Joe

Hey, thanks for the reply! I looked pretty hard at plasmacam, and some people sure seem to love them on the forums! Seems like they have an odd software, a lot of stuff to add on, and not the most sturdy looking while being bulky. Those are what have kinda kept me away in my mind but not knocking on it as I don't enough to have too much of an opinion, just my thoughts on them! I do appreciate you taking the time to reply, and I will give them another look over. Also, I have 10' wide by 25' space for my table.

[madmarc87]

Hey everyone, I'm Tim very new to plasma cnc tables! Little experience other than occasional use of a plasma cutter, no experience with cnc at all! I am tired of working for others looking to teach myself how to use one of these to start a side hustle and possibly in the future a full-time gig.

Where are you located Tim?

Joe

Kansas City area

[Joe Jones]

Good luck in your search.

Joe

[madmarc87]

Welcome aboard Tim, David's suggestion is spot on, Do use the search function here (upper right) and check on any table you are looking at. Some of those you list do not fair well over time. If possible find a local for an eyes on visit (tire kicking), sales pitches are not always the best. This site have been here a while and many experienced users have posted their views about some tables. For someone just getting in things to look at are the software, and electronics that are packaged with them. Some companies have restrictive software which limit file import/exports, you want to be free to gather or create files for projects. With a membership here you will be able to download a great number of cuttable files for free.

Thanks for the reply! I have used the searched on this site, and my others still not really found what I am looking for. There is not a large volume of information on a lot of brands out there, which is one reason I'm looking at the Langmuir. I have been comparing companies for the last several months daily. The software is what kinda has me wondering about Stv sparX pro 4x8 as the table/hardware look of a much better quality than the Langmuir crossfire xr. I'm just looking for the best table in the 10k range or little more maybe if it absolutely worth it that is going to hold up for 2-3years without worrying about it no matter how much I use it.

[Joe Jones]

It sounds like you need to find a 4x8 table. PlasmaCam makes a 4x4 and a 5x10. It is possible to alter the size of the 5x10 table, but it is not a cheap undertaking. You can get two (used?) 4x4 tables and mate them together into a 4x8 with some good, old fashioned Kentucky Redneck engineering. Several people have done this with varying degrees of success. PlasmaCam sells their 5x10 table, so they will not be convinced to offer a "4x4 to 4x8 Expansion Kit." Too bad, because they are losing a LOT of money by being so stubborn.

There was a time in my life not so long ago, when I was going to buy up all of the used 4x4 tables and 5x10 tables and GoTorch machines, and Frankenstein them into 4x8 tables, and 4x10 tables, and 5x5 tables, and 4x5 tables, and 5x8 tables, etc. However, life got in the way and I took my finances in another direction.

I love my 510 table and the DesignEdge software with the Full Monty of upgrades, but that all came at a high cost. It was 'Spensive, Lucy!

Now I have shifted gears, and I am not so anxious to take on new ventures.

Joe


.

[adbuch]

................

[madmarc87]

Hi Tim,

I cannot speak to the other table manufacturers. Some of them are good, while others have proven to be regrettable mistakes. I hear good thing about the Langmuir tables, but ... the TABLES ... not the software so much.

Predictably, I CAN endorse the PlasmaCam tables, the DHC2 4x4, the "Big Brother" Samson 510 table, and their little Bro', the Go Torch. Each of them is customizable in size via a $998.00 software upgrade. The tables are functional, and designed to be "adequately functionally minimal" in construction. They work well, but some people want to beat their chests and say a plasma table isn't a "real" table unless it is made from railroad tracks and steel girders, and three people died welding it together. The PlasmaCam tables are fine for their intended purposes, but they seem to offend those who must feed their 'macho' a steady diet of testosterone.

The thorn in people's sides is PlasmaCam's business model. They sell you a table with BASIC software that honestly doesn't do much of anything. You can load a DXF file into the software and cut it on the table. That is about it. I believe you also get BASIC DESIGN software, which is okay, but Advanced Design does so much more!

If you WANT additional capabilities and functions, they all come at a separate cost. Some software (SolidWorks, Adobe Illustrator, AutoCAD, etc.) is expensive and includes EVERYTHING. PlasmaCam sells their software as individual "upgrades" and just like Liberty Mutual, "You only pay for what you need."

You can add Advanced Design, Basic or Advanced Height Control , Advanced Machine Control, Automatic Nesting, 3D capability (Truly, 2-1/2D), Customizable Size Upgrade, Metric Units (almost NO ONE needs this upgrade), and a pipe cutting option that I advise AGAINST, unless you are willing to invest about $4K MORE to make it work correctly. I will explain that later.

My 510 table has the Full Monty of upgrades, and ten seats. I had plans for a Bed-and-Breakfast PlasmaCam Weekend Training Seminar here at my home workshops, but life got in the way, and plans changed.

Before you buy ANY table, decide what you will do with it NOW, and in the future. A 4x8 format is preferable to a 4x4. A 4x4 PlasmaCam is actually 5x5 footprint, and needs at least a 9'x13' space IF you are going to put the back of the table against a wall. If you want to pass sheet metal across the grates (called "tiling") you will need an additional 5 or six feet at the rear of the table as well.

Not many people have the physical space for a 510 table, which is actually 6x11 feet, and requires some 266 square feet of floor space (14 x 19) for a good experience. This gives you four feet of space around the entire table. Even that is a tight setup, as more space is better.

I do like the DesignEdge software. That is proprietary software that ONLY runs the PlasmaCam tables, and it is not "industry standard." It truly does have THE EDGE over other software options. Yes, most of the world uses the industry standard Mach 3 or Mach 4, along with two or three (or four?) other programs, in order to take something from a napkin sketch to a finished part. They will all boast about how well they can use CorelDraw, and Inkscape, and AutoCAD, and SheetCam, and (insert another six or seven programs here) to produce parts, and a real man ONLY uses all of these other programs. No real man uses DesignEdge! There is a huge segment of the cnc plasma community that views the PlasmaCam as the retarded runt cousin of REAL plasma tables. Speaking only for myself, I have not seen anything that would convince me to change to another brand of table. The JD SQUARED tables almost got me to change, when I was having an issue with PlasmaCam, but that has all been worked out now.

So when you make your choice, do your research, and decide WHAT you want to do, and WHAT you enjoy. I can make anything with my Samson 510 table, but I am the first to admit that I did not bother to learn G-Code, and I chose not to jump through the hoops of two or three programs just to cut something on my table. I can take an idea or a sketch, and turn it into a finished product using DesignEdge ALONE. No other table can honestly offer that option.

To be completely honest, I am waiting for LASERS to come down in price. If that happens, I may sell off ALL of my plasma stuff, and buy a nice LASER table! However, I would still keep my 510 table with the DesignEdge license!

I make You Tube videos on using DesignEdge. There are currently 447 videos at this channel.



You might want to watch this video ...

Joe

Also I think they were above my price range of around 10k.

[adbuch]

Thanks for the reply! I have used the searched on this site, and my others still not really found what I am looking for. There is not a large volume of information on a lot of brands out there, which is one reason I'm looking at the Langmuir. I have been comparing companies for the last several months daily. The software is what kinda has me wondering about Stv sparX pro 4x8 as the table/hardware look of a much better quality than the Langmuir crossfire xr. I'm just looking for the best table in the 10k range or little more maybe if it absolutely worth it that is going to hold up for 2-3years without worrying about it no matter how much I use it.

Exactly what are you looking for? Do you have a list of criteria which must be met in order for one of the available cnc plasma tables to be acceptable to you? What are your concerns about the software? I assume you are talking about control software concerns as most of the cad/cam software can be used with any of the tables on the market.

I personally use and would recommend Plasmacam, but it is out of your price range. Langmuir has a reputation for quality products and great customer support. I know absolutely nothing about the Stv tables and software. If they have a user forum, then you should look there for more information.

For a 4x8 table in your stated price range, I would recommend one of the following two packages from Langmuir. If you are really on a tight budget, then go with the CrossFire XR/RazorWeld cutter package. If you want a premium cutter, then get the CrossFire XR/Hypertherm 45xp package.

With any of these - you will most likely be using Inkscape, CorelDraw, SolidEdge, and maybe Fusion 360 for creating your drawings and SheetCam or Fusion 360 for your cam setup and g-code. Do you have any experience using any of these programs? If not, then I would suggest that you start learning one of the cad programs so you are able to create and edit drawings.

Once you can produce a drawing, then you can import it to Fusion 360 (or SheetCam)for cam and g-code. Fusion 360 has a simulator so that you can run your g-code and see what it looks like on the actual part. For g-code simulation I also like ChiliPeppr TinyG Hardware Fiddle. You will need to become proficient with this process before you are able to do any meaningful work with which ever plasma table you choose to buy.

Here is an example.

Use Inkscape to create a drawing and save as svg or dxf.

Import the svg or dxf to SheetCam to create cut paths and g-code.

Use simulator to test g-code.

Or import the svg or dxf saved from Inkscape to Fusion 360 for cut path creation and simulation.

[djreiswig]

SheetCam also has a simulator built in.

[Joe Jones]

Also I think they were above my price range of around 10k.

The hiker who bought cheap sneakers because hiking boots were to expensive, soon regretted his decision half way through the hike.

Joe

[adbuch]

SheetCam also has a simulator built in.

Djreiswig - thanks for that! I had not tried the SheetCam simulator yet, and didn't even know it existed until you pointed it out.

David

[Dirtmotor]

Just saw this , cant wait to get home and try the simulator , Thanks