"Cut Ready DXF's" Very Misleading IMO

[JJsCustomDesigns]

My first post was friendly, you see where it went from there. Thanks for your help.

I didnt see one of your posts that wasnt condecending towards this community and what we do. Maybe you should get a refund on that machine

[ben de lappe]

Wade,
I know that as stated above this thread is getting old, so I will try to keep it short. Several years ago when I finally was in a position to purchase my often dreamed of C.N.C. plasma, I researched any and all aspects of what machine I thought would serve my purposes best. I had never once run G-code nor done drawings by cad in my 23 years of fabrication. (likely a drop in the bucket compared to some on this site). After extensive research I found the machine I wanted with plasma and router. Unlike you, I did not know about this site. I had no one other than tech support to help me with assembly, setup, programming, etc. All I knew was how a plasma should perform. I learned through extensive manuals---the hard way. Even though my setup process was not that lengthy, I would have given anything to have had the opportunity to probe the minds of the professionals on this site. I wish my only issue would be over cut ready files. To me cut ready simply means the file is ready for you to apply your toolpath according to your needs. Many times I will "improve" a drawing to my particular taste. These systems are simplified to the point you can do anything with the drawing (edit, detail, size etc.) and use the drawing for multiple purposes. You should know your machine well enough to operate it properly without damage. I can tell by sound with mine. There are settings that can be applied such as feedrate, ramping, and continuous contouring where it can be run as gently as possible without undue stress. It does not always have to be run at max amps and feedrate. If I sent you a "cut ready" file with all of my lead in's and out's according to my torchmate designs what would happen in your system? I can't answer that, as I only have experience with my system. Personally I find you to be quite rude in your statements to the fine people here who only wished to help you with your issue. If one knows the proper operation of his/her equipment, lots of detail can be achieved with plasma. If nothing else you are receiving a file with excellent quality. I would even advise playing with any drawing, you might even learn something about your machine, artwork, or even yourself. One more from the "peanut gallery"

[tnbndr]

My first post was friendly, you see where it went from there.

I keep reading your first post. Did someone edit out the friendly part?

Hello, I'm new to this forum and would appreciate your opinions. I've recently purchased some "Cut Ready" files from a couple different companies and I have to say that I'm not impressed at all. Since this is a plasma community I assumed that these files wouldn't need much work to create clean G code. I was wrong, very few of these files were intended to be plasma cut. I'm sure they work great for cutting vinyl graphics but expect to put in some cad time to get an efficient tool path. Many of these files I end up redrawing myself to save time. Very disappointing.

[JEd]

I think Jed hit the nail on the head when he mentioned that "They were driveway toppers."

I called them driveway toppers because the files I had were sold as driveway toppers. They were larger than the files cut above. I think the cut pieces above worked out really nice, especially since they were shrunk down even smaller than intended.

[wadegarrett4215]

Ben, I appreciate your input and advice. Iv'e been a member on several forums for years concerning one topic or another. This one however, is this first when upon joining was spoken to as if I were a complete Idiot. I think most anyone's reaction would be to become defensive. I get irritated when people start insulting my intelligence and I really can't stomach people who assume that their time or anyone else's time is more precious than mine. Everyone's time is precious. If you read back that's when I start getting pissed off and rude. Then the insults start flying in. What a nice welcome. I expressed an opinion on an issue that I was having and right away I'm bashed for even suggesting that these advertised "ready cut" files aren't tweaked for plasma. Well, guess what? They are not. They are created for a broad customer base as I suspected. I just got off the phone with one of the designers (who was very pleasant I might add) and he agreed with with me. He also appreciated the feedback and criticism and I look forward to speaking with him again. "Anyone that says the files are 100% ready to cut would be lying" were his words. So, my opinion stands as is. I feel that a person looking to invest in a machine should be made aware that you can't expect to buy an art package, jump in and start creating tool paths without a certain amount of tweaking first. I don't see that there is anything left to discuss here.

[wadegarrett4215]

To the other couple of guys that just want to throw punches, we'll go rounds another day.

[HutchBucks]

I gotta pipe in...been sitting on the sidelines for a bit, trying to figure out which system I should stick some $$$ into. Leaning towards Arclight system with hypertherm plasma.
OK...Here's my problem--downloaded plasmapros dxf file and tried loading it at work on Hypertherm Voyager HPR 400XD system. Most of the dxf files I load on the system are auto-converted, some need a lil tweaking. All I got with the USA flag dxf file was a BIG error message..."No valid line, arc, or circle DXF segments found. Make sure file is exploded and pierce points are marked numerically with text at intersections". This is a new one for me, anyone got any input on that? Jim? Thinking it's gotta be something simple I overlooked.

[jimcolt]

I am assuming that you are directly importing the raw .dxf file into the Voyager (Hypertherm) cnc control....not using a post processor (CAM) software? Usually when you see the error message on a direct import it is because the .dxf file was not saved as a "polyline" type file...and there are a few different types of .dxf's. Best bet (as always with Hypertherm products) is to call tech support.....they would likely have you send them an email with the file....they would load it on a Hypertherm cnc right by their desk and determine what the issues were. The Voyager control also (if you have the control on line) has a "Remote Help" button.....push it and it will guide you through a remote help session with a tech support person...they will essentially "drive"your control and determine if there is a setup file that needs changing.

In my experience with a high end industrial (High Definition Plasma) machine like yours....you are much better off with artistic drawings by running them through the same CAM software (probably Pronest?) that your company uses for all of its cutting. The ability of that control to directly import complex .dxf files is somewhat limited...as it was designed primarily for high production, fully nested file imports!

I have heard good things about the ArcLite Dynamics machines....they are a great entry level plasma....and a good choice with your thoughts on Hypertherm!

Best regards, Jim Colt

I gotta pipe in...been sitting on the sidelines for a bit, trying to figure out which system I should stick some $$$ into. Leaning towards Arclight system with hypertherm plasma.
OK...Here's my problem--downloaded plasmapros dxf file and tried loading it at work on Hypertherm Voyager HPR 400XD system. Most of the dxf files I load on the system are auto-converted, some need a lil tweaking. All I got with the USA flag dxf file was a BIG error message..."No valid line, arc, or circle DXF segments found. Make sure file is exploded and pierce points are marked numerically with text at intersections". This is a new one for me, anyone got any input on that? Jim? Thinking it's gotta be something simple I overlooked.

[HutchBucks]

Yep, directly importing and the hypercad takes over from there, very minimal tweaking. However, the more complex dxf files lock up the software when it gets to 49% converted. None of the 4 tables in the shop are online so no "Remote Help" button capabilities. I'm pretty sure most production parts are loaded through SigmaNest, we do the nesting at the tables. Thanks for the input Jim.

[shocwav3]

Yep, directly importing and the hypercad takes over from there, very minimal tweaking. However, the more complex dxf files lock up the software when it gets to 49% converted. None of the 4 tables in the shop are online so no "Remote Help" button capabilities. I'm pretty sure most production parts are loaded through SigmaNest, we do the nesting at the tables. Thanks for the input Jim.

I know its an extra step but adding in a 3rd party CAM will solve the issue with your more complicated DFX conversions as Jim mentioned. My experience is more waterjet then plasma since I run my home brew set up plasma and high dollar waterjets at work. Even the high end systems are not built perfect to tackle every scenario (Even though after the money spent it seems like they should!) So I always have a CAM on stand bye for just those occasions.

[plain ol Bill]

I got curious about the USA flag file so I downloaded it, brought it into Sheetcam and bada bing, bada boom there was a cut file ready to output the G code. I zoomed in and looked it over pretty well and did not see anything that would not cut right. It works for me and my equipment in my shop.
Wade my suggestion is that you should do what all the rest of us have done. That is to buy some material and cut it. Then cut some more, then some more, and more until you understand all the parameters of your machine, software and how to get the most out of them. I love Jason's (Cascade) and Gary's (Signtorch) files but rarely have I cut any of them without tweaking them somehow so my machine will do it's best work with them.

[BarnFab]

So when I decided to invest $40,000 on a plasma table last winter

Ok I have to ask, what machine did you invest $40k in ? At that price it would want to come with its own damn artwork and an operator.

[jimcolt]

If you look at industrial cnc plasma machines that are designed to cut with precision, 3 shifts a day...and last for 20 years under these conditions...the the prices start at about $85k and go up....depending on equipment and size. A $40 k machine could likely be a lightweight, low production industrial cnc plasma. Most of the machines that get discussed on this forum are essentially "entry level machines....typically a entry level machine is of relatively lightweight contruction, has a user built fume control system (or no fume control) and is designed for low volume, small shop use. Most entry level machines can be bought or built in 5 x 10 and smaller plate sizes for less than $20k.

Being in the plasma cutting business for over 35 years....I am still a little surprised when people complain that a $10,000 Torchmate or Plasma Cam is an expensive machine! It is for a small shop or hobbyist.....however in the world of cnc plasma cutting machines....anything under $20k is low cost!

Jim Colt

[vmax549]

IT would be interesting to find out what OTHERS consider CUT READY.

TO me it means all contours are closed , No duplicate lines or overlapped lines. Detail will be subjective to scale. You cannot expect a 48" detail piece to cut at 24" and vise versa a detailed cut at 24" will be very plain Jane at 48" scale.
Segment clearance has the same provisions.

Sharp pointy parts, That is PART of art detail in a lot of cases. Without it it all gets very plain and unattractive in most cases. Plasma in a lot of ways is like trying to paint the Mona Lisa with a 6" house brush, I can be done but takes a lot of talent and creativity.

As to Cad vs artsy that is a no brainer. Probably 90% of all plasma art is done primarily on an artsy program. Then converted/saved to Vector format. CAD is not really conductive to artsy work. (be using acad since it came on 3 floppy disc). NOW does artys work make the best MACHINE cuts ? Depends on the aurthur of the work and how much he knows about the trade. Good ones will convert as much of the micro line segments to line/arc format. But that is NOT a given as it takes a great deal of time sometime to make Great vectored art ready for Gcode. Time is money how much do you want to spend for art? HARD on machines ? ONLY if your machine is a rattle trap to start with. A decent controller will take that micro segmented code and smooth it out with CV(constant velocity)corrections.

There is a HUGE volume of Art work out there that was NOT created for ANY machine based creation. But that does NOT mean you cannot cut it.

I often use a Program used for Paper/crafting to convert certain types of work. WHY because it create cuts with unique features that work very well with SOME art.

Some times I use Coloring book art to create Plasma art. Most never think about it as an art source for plasma.

BUT I do use CAD to modify artsy work to MY needs. Because I use it daily.

Now as to claims of absolute cut ready , How do you know when a salesman is lying to you?? ANYONE with a" little" experience in the real world know that by now. Also anyone that has been in the plasma trade very long KNOWS all ART work is subject to a LOT of conditions such as size and scale. One cannot BUY large format artwork and expect it to cut at small scale. WITHOUT a lot of redrawing to make it work.

A LOT of time only when you actually CUT a project do you SEE if it is a great art piece or just average based on detail.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ?

Just a thought, (;-) TP

[chris hoggard]

Wade,
All I have to say is WOW ,you may have some good points no pun intended but your method of delivery and tone leave a lot to be desired. and in my short time being a member here I have never heard anybody rant like you do, you have heard explanations from a number of members who have been a lot more patient with you than i would have been,the bottom line is stop bitching more fixing.
ps dont feel bad about your $40.000 my machine was $150.000 and I still have a long way to go before i produce some of the work that people on here produce with $7000 machines

[wadegarrett4215]

ps dont feel bad about your $40.000 my machine was $150.000 and I still have a long way to go before i produce some of the work that people on here produce with $7000 machines
chris hoggard

I have to ask Chris, you've obviously invested a great deal more than I have. It seems like you should be able to produce quality parts at this point. I'm curious as to what your issues are and why you feel that you can't reproduce what a $7000 is capable of producing.

[chris hoggard]

I would say that mostly experience and trying to dial in the machine with different materials another small disadvantage for my machine is its size and torch size which does not allow me to use the fine cut consumables so some of the smaller detailed files i just have to blow them up a little and sometimes remove or modify as needed,I took a gamble and invested in a higher end machine as we own a small general fab shop the machine gives me the ability to cut in a production in mode as well as to do some of the garden art as a side line, but i also recognise that there are some limitations and disadvantages to my machine, to some of the smaller machines with lighter gantry and torch equipment like i said all i do is modify files to suit and dont get me wrong we still get great stuff.
so to sum up your question there are a lot of people on this site that have helped me out wether they know it or not just by reading there post as many of them have many years of experience and this has to be the one of the most friendly i have ever been on.
Hopefully that answers your question and i do hope that you decide to keep using this site and contribute thanks chris

ps
multicam 3000 (would never recomend)
HPR 260X (awsome )

[jimcolt]

Chris,

Your HPR260xd Hypertherm Plasma on your Multicam table will cut small, thin parts with better cut quality and accuracy than any low cost table with an air plasma. You have a high definintion system that cuts with oxygen on steel....and can go down to a 30 amp process for use on thin gauge materials....as well as going up to 260 amps for up to 1-1/2" steel at high cutting speeds. It also has the ability to mark as well as cut.

Best regards, Jim Colt Hypertherm

I would say that mostly experience and trying to dial in the machine with different materials another small disadvantage for my machine is its size and torch size which does not allow me to use the fine cut consumables so some of the smaller detailed files i just have to blow them up a little and sometimes remove or modify as needed,I took a gamble and invested in a higher end machine as we own a small general fab shop the machine gives me the ability to cut in a production in mode as well as to do some of the garden art as a side line, but i also recognise that there are some limitations and disadvantages to my machine, to some of the smaller machines with lighter gantry and torch equipment like i said all i do is modify files to suit and dont get me wrong we still get great stuff.
so to sum up your question there are a lot of people on this site that have helped me out wether they know it or not just by reading there post as many of them have many years of experience and this has to be the one of the most friendly i have ever been on.
Hopefully that answers your question and i do hope that you decide to keep using this site and contribute thanks chris

ps
multicam 3000 (would never recomend)
HPR 260X (awsome )

[chris hoggard]

I do notice Jim though that on detailed drawings that are small that maching shakes a lot as the gantry is so heavy and of course as i stated we are still working with it and finding that we are improving each time we cut and also discovering when the consumables need changing etc which of course effects the cut quality lots, we are also playing around with the different gases the bottom line is that i have seen some great stuff done on here with lower cost machines and high cost equipment is not a replacement for talent and effort. chris

[wadegarrett4215]

Your HPR260xd Hypertherm Plasma on your Multicam table will cut small, thin parts with better cut quality and accuracy than any low cost table with an air plasma. You have a high definintion system that cuts with oxygen on steel....and can go down to a 30 amp process for use on thin gauge materials....as well as going up to 260 amps for up to 1-1/2" steel at high cutting speeds. It also has the ability to mark as well as cut.

Jim, are they're cut charts available for cutting at low amperage? Better yet, is there a spreadsheet that exists that would allow a user to input all of their variables to cut properly?

[jimcolt]

There are about 35 pages of cut charts in the operators manual for cuting from 30 amps to 260 amps....if you do not hav the HPR260 operators manual (they are shipped with every system) you can download it for free on the www.hypertherm.com website.

I believe all of the cut parameters either are in the MultiCam software....or can be input there. That is a question that is better suited for MultiCam...

Jim Colt

Your HPR260xd Hypertherm Plasma on your Multicam table will cut small, thin parts with better cut quality and accuracy than any low cost table with an air plasma. You have a high definintion system that cuts with oxygen on steel....and can go down to a 30 amp process for use on thin gauge materials....as well as going up to 260 amps for up to 1-1/2" steel at high cutting speeds. It also has the ability to mark as well as cut.

Jim, are they're cut charts available for cutting at low amperage? Better yet, is there a spreadsheet that exists that would allow a user to input all of their variables to cut properly?

[jimcolt]

If there is any shake in the MultiCam machine...you should pursue that with their tech service. That is a very well built machine with motion capability that is far in advance of most of the entry level machines from other users on this site. You have linear recirculating bearings, precision rack and pinions, planetary gearboxes and AC brushless servos......all top end industrial precision components!

Jim

I do notice Jim though that on detailed drawings that are small that maching shakes a lot as the gantry is so heavy and of course as i stated we are still working with it and finding that we are improving each time we cut and also discovering when the consumables need changing etc which of course effects the cut quality lots, we are also playing around with the different gases the bottom line is that i have seen some great stuff done on here with lower cost machines and high cost equipment is not a replacement for talent and effort. chris

[Largemouthlou]

If there is any shake in the MultiCam machine...you should pursue that with their tech service. That is a very well built machine with motion capability that is far in advance of most of the entry level machines from other users on this site. You have linear recirculating bearings, precision rack and pinions, planetary gearboxes and AC brushless servos......all top end industrial precision components!

Jim

Dam, I want one of them!!!!!