Viper Plasma

[Magic Rat]

I didn't really want to start a new thread but I am extremely close to purchasing a machine and like the thought of a turnkey system. A web search throws up very little about this company so I would like to know if anyone has any experience of them. Looking at their machines I am finding it difficult to resist what they have on offer. If anyone knows any reason why I shouldn't take a punt on one of these please feel free to let me know.

viperplasma.com

[Gamelord]

Just so you know, that is not a complete setup, you are only purchasing the "kit" from them and you will need to construct your table on your own with your own materials....

I hate it when they claim it is a complete "turn key" system but fail to point out the details. Like my friend who went out to purchase a travel trailer for camping. The dealer continually said it was completely "self contained" It had no generator!!!! How can they claim it is self contained when you need to plug it in to a power outlet to operate half the appliances in it? Self contained to me means "everything will work by itself without needing anything else" .... just the same way I would interpret "Turn Key System" to mean "pull it off the truck, fire it up and start cutting! "

To me, this is very misleading and any company that tries to mislead you from the start would make me very nervous about doing business with them.

Just for comparison on a complete (what I would call) "Turn Key System":
Torchmate 2x4 complete bolt together table. Nothing extra to buy, just order it in and bolt the entire table and everything together for $3500 (plasma not included)
Torchmate 4x4 complete bolt together table. Nothing extra to buy, just order it in and bolt the entire table and everything together for $7500 (plasma not included)

Actual apples to apples comparison to what you are looking at purchasing:
Torchmate 1 4x8 KIT (you build your own table, they provide all the plans, material lists and instructions) $3600
Torchmate 1 5x10 KIT (you build your own table, they provide all the plans, material lists and instructions) $3700
Torchmate 2 4x8 KIT (you build your own table, they provide all the plans, material lists and instructions) $7800
Torchmate 2 5x10 KIT (you build your own table, they provide all the plans, material lists and instructions) $8800
Torchmate 3 4x8 KIT (you build your own table, they provide all the plans, material lists and instructions) $8800
Torchmate 3 5x10 KIT (you build your own table, they provide all the plans, material lists and instructions) $9400

These prices are appx. from an old list, they may be a little more or a little less.

The deal from Viper doesn't look like it is that bad of a deal when they include the plasma cutter. If you already have your own plasma cutter then the Torchmate deal would be better. Also, with the Torchmate kit you are getting a 4x8 kit instead of a 4x4. The Hypertherm 45 can be purchased online for around $1500.00

Hope that helps.

[Magic Rat]

Thanks for the very comprehensive reply. I have looked at Torchmate very closely and I found them hard to fault but the 4x4 is around 50% more expensive, and that is what I just can't justify at the moment. I know I have to fabricate the table which to be honest like most people on here I am more than capable of, If I have to do anything I would rather it was the fabrication rather than the mechanics. The cost of THC which I consider essential on is a big turn off as far as TM is concerned. I am not sure how old those prices you quoted are but they have put their prices up at least twice since Lincoln took over. I would much rather go with a market leader than someone who doesn't seem to have been around 5 minutes, but I won't lie, the extra cost is putting me off.

[muzza]

I'd be doing as much research as possible dealing with someone who doesn't seem to have a track record. There was another case posted on here not so long back where a person very seasoned in the plasma cutting industry went with a relatively new table although part of a long established trader and came unstuck and found himself scrapping the majority of what he purchased.

Ask to speak with current users, get referals, etc. Make sure your comparing apples with apples when it comes to electronics, height control and mechanicals. What is pictured appears very basic.

There's an old saying, "It's better to have paid too much and wasted a little than to pay too little and waste so much"

Murray

[I Lean]

Since that table uses V rails and bearings, you could make your own for quite a bit cheaper, since you're building the table anyway. Get the control setup from CandCNC, if you get a Bladerunner Dragon-Cut you'll automatically get your THC control as well. You'll also get much stronger stepper motors, even if you get the entry-level kit. (it has 300 oz-in steppers compared to those 270's...or you can step up to the 620 oz-in motors)

If price is your main concern, V-bearings will work just fine. I have them on my table, and even though I'm wishing I did something better now, they do function well....just don't last as long, or maintain accuracy over time like a "real" linear bearing will.

[tacoma747]

If you continue looking for budget tables, I will warn you, the Burntables brand sounds/looks decent, but STAY AWAY.

[GPM870]

I'll second that!
GM

[tacoma747]

I'll second that!
GM

Did you make the same mistake I did and buy one?

[GPM870]

Yes I did Tacoma

[MidAmericaIron]

Why don't you guys like the Burn Tables machine? Their salesman has been very helpful and full of knowledge. Although I do notice he likes to bash other table manufacturers. I think I am between Arclight and LDR Motion Systems.

[dhelfter]

Being a table manufacturer (I am the owner of LDR Motion Systems) It drives me crazy when you see companies claiming "turnkey" and it is not. Makes it real confusing for potential customers to know if they are comparing apples to apples. There are so many good tables out there at a good price. And each customer has their own reasons for purchasing or not. I just wish there was a "master chart" that compared what you were getting with each system. I know with ours we supply everything except plasma cutter, and shipping. our 4x8 with an air bladder water table COMPLETE is 8900$ (was 8600$ till yesterday. Ilean I do have to ask, why do you say v rollers don't last as long as "real" linear bearings? What brand did you use? V rollers of good quality are much more suited for dirty environments than recirculating ball bearings. Just curious what issues you have had.

[tacoma747]

Why don't you guys like the Burn Tables machine? Their salesman has been very helpful and full of knowledge. Although I do notice he likes to bash other table manufacturers. I think I am between Arclight and LDR Motion Systems.

Because I bought one and it's a piece of crap... If you plan to use it once a month every other year then it might be OK, but if you plan to make money with it, STAY AWAY.

Seriously, look into a Bulltear table. I wish I had bought one up front, I have built a 4x8 Bulltear and will have about $2k more in it than the 4x4 Burntables. The quality of parts is not even comparable. The bearings on the Burntables are not worth a crap, the gantry can move side to side, the table was out of square when I got it, grating was not the same height (was like a roller coaster), I could go on and on.

The Bulltear gantry kit takes some work to be useable, but the quality shows as soon as you unpack it. 3/4" CNC aluminum parts, the rail system is VERY nice. The Z-axis on the Burntables is a JOKE. squeaks constantly even with lube, Burntables torch holder is plastic, if you break it (and you will) then it's toast. Bulltear comes with a magnetic torch holder, and the Z-axis is pure BEEF (whole thing is really).

The control system Bulltear uses (CandCNC.com stuff) is much higher quality than the Probotix stuff Burntables uses and then modifys with their own torch height control (that hardly works).