Marking with plasma (Jim)

[Largemouthlou]

Just watched a video posted by Hypertherm on FB and the torch basically scribes out the letters instead of cutting all the way through. Did I miss the bus on this one being discussed??

What is the process?? Is it better then using a air/pneumatic scribe (unless doing small detail)

Thanks Gang

[icmplasma85]

We have this capability at my day job. We build alot of commercial steel stairs and rails, so I draw up the stringer profiles in CAD and scribe the layouts on the material so it makes it easier for the shop guys. I know the process uses argon for gas and I assume just a very low amperage. I dont see why it couldnt be done on these hobby tables alot of us have if the settings were correct. I guess the hardest part may be keeping the arc going, because I would think with only being able to turn the amps down but so far, you would have to run the torch higher so it wouldnt cut thru the metal. Factor in speed and you have yourself a regular ol redneck science project!

[jimcolt]

Our high definition plasma systems use the same consumables for marking and cutting.....cutting can be done at 400 amps, then in 2.4 seconds the unit (through the industrial CNC and the CAM software) changes automatically from 400 amps with pure oxygen to 15 amps with Argon plasma gas and nitrogen shield gas...and marks at about 400 ipm.
These systems have complex gas flow systems and high end purpose built cnc controls.

In theory it could be done with the air plasma systems but you would have to switch gases to argon....and since a single gas is used for cooling, plasma and shield you probably would not like the argon consumption and cost. It works, but not very well and at a higher cost than using a pneumatic scriber.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[Largemouthlou]

Thank you both for the info.. Figured it was more complicated then it looked..

[vmax549]

There is a fellow on here that makes a really NICE small control board that interfaces with the torch on/off relay that controls the arc. This allows one to precisely mark the spot with a simple dimple made from a very quick flash of the plasma arc. His board controls the duration (time) of the arc . It is adjustable as to duration so you can fine tune it to YOUR system.

IF you use this board and set a layer to mark a series of dimples you can outline a feature. Looks like a true outline but really is a series of dimples. Sort of like a dot matrix printer but courser.

Note you MIGHT could set it up to do a short on long off senario that would dot mark a standard cut line. The torch would cycle on /off and dot mark the profile.

Just a thought, (;-) TP

[acourtjester]

I saw a YouTube about a guy that did that he was in Australia is that who you are talking about. If not can you give us some info about how to contact him and the price for his unit.

Thanks
Tom

[beefy]

Hi Tom,

that's me, I've been here all the time

http://www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12774

The youtube video was the very first board I made. I've just built my "Mark II" board which has quite a few indicator LEDs for the inputs and output, plus a couple of potentiometers for parameter adjustments.

I've took notice of what TP suggested, it never occurred to me to use the board for outline marking with plasma marks. Now I'll have to make the "Mark III" board LOL and add the repeating on-off function.

At the moment this is just something I've done for myself, so I have to manufacture the PCB, drill all the holes (the hardest bit), then solder all the components on. It takes a few hours to end up with the finished board so after the cost of the components, it wouldn't be worth it for me to do one for less than $300. If that's turned you off the idea I completely understand but at the moment this is like me doing a one-off custom job.

I've designed the board around Sheetcam and Mach3 (Candcnc).

Keith.

[acourtjester]

HI Keith
Thanks for the reply.
there are companies that will make small number os PCB for a small run of your electronics package here is one
http://www.customcircuitboards.com/?gcl ... 7AodCFwAxg
others on google too.
Or you may wnat to see about working a deal with someone to make them and give you a royalty on what is sold.

[beefy]

Thanks for that Tom, I'll check it out. I should actually email them to get some guidelines on designing the PCB to keep the manufacturing costs down.

I was told my board was the best method of using the plasma torch for hole marking and I should try selling it. Plasmacam apparently have something very similar integrated into their software. So far though absolutely no one (apart from yourself) has expressed any interest so I never took it any further.

It's certainly been a lesson in inventing new toys, I can think I've created a great new product yet hardly anyone raises an eyebrow.

Keith.

[BTA Plasma]

Not everyone. It is a fantastic product and with CandCNC's updated DCC you could spot mark and do some lettering, marking and some other interesting things with your board. When you get it up and running send me a PM.

[beefy]

Thanks BTA.

You seem to be much more "technical" and have a good understand of Mach (and its flaws), and that seems to be where the problem lies with making a product of my little toy. So far it seems only the very technical guys seem to give it a thought, and they seem few and far between, so I can't see much of a market.

I'll probably eventually redesign the board with surface mount components then get a manufacturing quote for the smallest batch they do, but due to the present lack of interest it won't be at the top of my to do list.

I think I need a drastically more interesting Youtube video too It doesn't really get the message across about why I made the board in the first place, and it hasn't received one comment LOL.

Keith

[BTA Plasma]

I could hundreds of customers your way. We alone could not sell it as Jim would have said it may lower your consumable life. BUT IT is a good idea for alot of marking and could do some interesting things with thin tube. Mach is a wonderful program but it needs a solid pulse engine. It also needs non multiplexed inputs and output for THC. This means a DB25 doesnt cut it. I REALLY like what CandCNC did was take the pulse engine and put it into the controller. Then they took the approach that has worked for a long time in industry and are using acelleration curves based on distance from the preset voltage band. Fantastic and will hold a superb height at high speeds. But fast marking like that is something that folks do want and it is hard to insure from a product liability standpoint for a mfg or table builder like us.

[grindergary]

Keith,

I would be interested. Just keep me in mind as you decide lol

Gary

[beefy]

Hmmm, you are tantalising me BTA

I remember searching the web looking for some good plasma cnc electronics and when I came across Toms (Candcnc) site and checked out his gear, it was a no brainer which company I was going with.

That was just a few years ago and now my system seems so basic compared to what he has now, I can't wait until I can afford one of his latest systems.

I'm afraid some of what you told me went right over my head. I've only got as far as learning a little about designing screensets, and I successfully made a touch off button for my Candcnc screen LOL. That is the thing I like about Mach, the ability to customise it for your own needs, although it does require a bit of time with your head in the book.

I'll PM you when I get a bit further with the board development. Thanks for your input.

Keith.

[vmax549]

KEITH do not rely on the WEB to base any decision on as to market. The web is a really WEIRD thing in some areas.

YOU have a great product/Idea that WORKS and that no one else does.

You do need to research your pricing a bit (;-) The idea is to sell in volume not onesy twosies. You can get a great deal on prefabbed PCBs these day and EVEN complete component assembly of the PCB. YOURs is very simple to do and should be VERY cost effective to produce for a Prefab house.

Plasma engraving is beyond the basic AIR Plasma cutter. DOT matrix marking(your Board) is a reality that a LOT of users will want. But you have to give the users TIME to learn what it is and how they can USE IT.

MORE VIDEOS showing ALL the aspects would be a GOOD thing. Then do a little web site surfing and spead some LINKS to teh vids.

THEN have a little patience and sit and see what happens. I am betting on it catching on like wild fire in a wind storm. But then again I know how useful it could be. The rest of the plasma world will have to LEARN how it will help them make a better living.

Is the MOd III ready to go yet ? (;-)

(;-) TP

[vmax549]

Keith always remember all the cool fancy things are NOT always better. Some are just a sales gimics to get you to upgrade(send them $$$$).

IF what you have, does all you can do, with all that you have to work with , WHAT is the point

My old PC with W2000 still does everything it did when new. AND will probably do 99.99% of everything "constructive" that W8 does now.

(;-) TP

[beefy]

Hi Terry,

thanks for your great input once again, your advice is always held in high esteem by me. I guess 15 years in this excavation game has made me a bit pessimistic. If I build an attachment which dramatically improves job throughput, the customer never seems to notice. I get the job done faster and better, the customer saves money while I lose. Kind of puts me in a shoulder shrugging mental state. I need to read your advice a 1000 times and reprogram myself

Ha ha, got a laugh when you said I need to revise my price. That would not be a price I would expect the market to accept, it was just for me to manually build another board as a one off. I've been chatting on another forum about getting PCBs made and have a few good leads. Have to redesign the board now for professional manufacture.

Mark 3 board is not done yet but for testing I'll just wire in some extra components on the existing one (for the repeating on-off). Got my table out of commission at present, doing my "shark tooth topper" slat installation. Once that's done I'll play with the board again and make a new Youtube video. Someone on the forum said they wanted to see the shark tooth toppers when done so they'll get to see that too.

Thanks again Terry,

Keith.