cutting time cost per hr. ?

[hooked]

hey folks im new here, love the site and i'm gaining knowledge ive been looking for. do any of you guys have an ideal on how to put a cost on plasma machine time per hour? i run a 5x10 gentec with a kaliburn spirit 150 , weather its a custom piece or a run of 50 is cost the same? thanks, Hook'd

[vmax549]

We charge $100 per hour for Machine time. That is every SEC the Machine MOVES during the job

Plus Art TIME (Cad/Cam)

Plus Material cost X profit margin on materials .

Plus Prep and Paint ( paint material at cost X PM)


AND that still comes out cheaper than some others. BUT that recovers the basic profit from the project. WHAT you actually charge is what the market will bare above COST. OR how good a salesman you are (;-)

Hope that helps, (;-) TP

[pemery]

i charge $80.00 per hr with an hour min. Always let the customer know that the first design will take longer and custom has a min of 2hr. 1hr for design and one for cut machine setup. also i charge material used not actual size. by that i mean if i use most of a half of a sheet i charge for all of it. I have heard of companies charging up to 150.00 an hr. at least that is what my closest competitor charges.

[HammerDownJustin]

The cheapest in my area is a large metal supplier and they charge $55 a hr 1 hr minimum on the plasma and $120 a hr on the laser. If you bring your dxf file they don't charge set up.I am going to price per job I think depending what needs done like the rest of my fab business

[Largemouthlou]

Man.. 55 hr??? So that means they will cut 4, 090 aluminum, artsy type objects that take a 100 pierces each and about 15 minutes cut time each for 55.00??
Heck my steel supplier wanted 165.00 to cut a 4 X 8 x 3/8 steel sheet in half, that is only 48" of cut told then heck no I would cut it myself when delivered, nice to have a hand torch as well as the machine torch

I'm still battling with the price game.. I know the water jet guy in my area gets 165 an hour. so I figure I'm worth about 125.00 an hr. When I figure, with a cut inch and pierce formula it is a little higher then the hourly rate broke down. But I don't charge a minimum either.. The artsy stuff is for railings and such that my landlord does and I know he marks them up pretty good, but he is trying to get me to do my work cheaper so he can maintain his amount of profit but offer the art option at a lower price so no one else will want to copy the idea.. He feels that if it costs 20 to cut one I should cut 5 or more at a lower price.. It takes the same amount of time, and consumable use to cut each one, so I see no place to lower the price!! He supplies material so no mark up there.. Plus still paying rent even though I'm sutting his stuff, so still have overhead.

Sure wish more would chime in on this..

[Diverdude]

[quote="Largemouthlou"]
Heck my steel supplier wanted 165.00 to cut a 4 X 8 x 3/8 steel sheet in half, that is only 48" of cut told then heck no I would cut it myself when delivered, nice to have a hand torch as well as the machine torch

[quote]
I run a 4x4 table and I set it up were I can put a full sheet on it and made a cut file that is a single 49" cut straight across the table so I can put a full sheet in and cut it in half or if I cut small parts out of the lower part of a sheet I can trim off the trash when I'm finished for the day and have a clean rectangle to put back on the rack for later.

[jmsrbrt]

Sure wish more would chime in on this..

$55 an hour, $65 an hour, $125 an hour and on and on and on. Material + labor + overhead times mark up. That number is different for everybody, and there is no magic number. At the VERY least, you have to recoup your cost

[Largemouthlou]

Diver, I have a 4 X 8 table and could do the same but the way I'm set up now it is easier weight wise to cut in half first then put on hte table.. Think I will make a couple rolling carts that i can put the sheet of steel on have it roll up to the table then have the machine cut it in half..

JM,,, I hear ya... Thanks

[beefy]

I too find that $55 is giving it away too cheap. If the table was cutting for 8 hours in a day that's only $440, but put together with artwork, cleaning, finishing, etc, I can't see a one man band having the table cutting constantly.

Jim Colt has some good posts on pricing, but just go through this section of the forum and look through every thread on pricing. Quite a bit of variation in how people charge. I like the one hour minimum bit, that should help repel tyrekickers that think you can drop everything to focus on their mini part the want doing for 5 bucks. Something I've read a few times is about being able to give a price very quickly on the spot when the customer is standing there. Some guys quote by the area of the bounding rectangle around the cut, because they say they've lost too many customers by having to work things out with cut length, number of pierces, etc. They get less than what they should on a complex cut but make more on simple cuts.

Quote:
Heck my steel supplier wanted 165.00 to cut a 4 X 8 x 3/8 steel sheet in half, that is only 48" of cut.

Wow, I just bought a peice of 12mm boilerplate 700 x 600 and it cost me $70, plasma cut to size. I had to wait a week for it but they cut it from stock. He said for about an extra $10 they'd also do the cnc profile cutting for me if I supplied the dxf. We're talking a massive long commercial table here with an expensive high definition plasma cutter. Mind you I've decided I'll do my own cnc cutting because their accuracy is attrocious. The guy said you have to accept a tolerance of 1 to 2 mm with plasma cutting Sure enough I checked my plate and it was 698 x 599 mm, 2mm & 1mm short. I'm normally within half to a quarter of a millimeter on my home made table, if I don't have bevel issues, so I don't understand how a several hundred thousand dollar table with high definition plasma has such terrible accuracy. Anyway getting a bit off topic there but see if there's another supplier without rediculous prices to cut. The mob I mentioned here is the plate processing division of a steel supply company so they are cutting plate all day long.

[BrianMick]

I too find that $55 is giving it away too cheap. If the table was cutting for 8 hours in a day that's only $440, but put together with artwork, cleaning, finishing, etc, I can't see a one man band having the table cutting constantly.

Jim Colt has some good posts on pricing, but just go through this section of the forum and look through every thread on pricing. Quite a bit of variation in how people charge. I like the one hour minimum bit, that should help repel tyrekickers that think you can drop everything to focus on their mini part the want doing for 5 bucks. Something I've read a few times is about being able to give a price very quickly on the spot when the customer is standing there. Some guys quote by the area of the bounding rectangle around the cut, because they say they've lost too many customers by having to work things out with cut length, number of pierces, etc. They get less than what they should on a complex cut but make more on simple cuts.

Quote:
Heck my steel supplier wanted 165.00 to cut a 4 X 8 x 3/8 steel sheet in half, that is only 48" of cut.

Wow, I just bought a peice of 12mm boilerplate 700 x 600 and it cost me $70, plasma cut to size. I had to wait a week for it but they cut it from stock. He said for about an extra $10 they'd also do the cnc profile cutting for me if I supplied the dxf. We're talking a massive long commercial table here with an expensive high definition plasma cutter. Mind you I've decided I'll do my own cnc cutting because their accuracy is attrocious. The guy said you have to accept a tolerance of 1 to 2 mm with plasma cutting Sure enough I checked my plate and it was 698 x 599 mm, 2mm & 1mm short. I'm normally within half to a quarter of a millimeter on my home made table, if I don't have bevel issues, so I don't understand how a several hundred thousand dollar table with high definition plasma has such terrible accuracy. Anyway getting a bit off topic there but see if there's another supplier without rediculous prices to cut. The mob I mentioned here is the plate processing division of a steel supply company so they are cutting plate all day long.

As a steel supplier myself I can explain why there would be such a "loose" tolerance and low prices on the plasma side of cutting. We tend to make our money "hacking" out rough sheets for customers by running the big tables as fast as we can for 8-10 hours a day straight and make our money moving larger qty's of weight. The faster I can knock out a sheet the More sheets I can sell. Steel suppliers don't make their money on small art projects. If I was to quote all of the jobs that come past me by the pierce and all of the other little theorys that every one has on pricing, there just would not be enough time in the day......I quote everything time and material.......120.00 bucks an hour+material. I do have a 25.00 minimum If you want me to slow my machine down for a tighter tolerance......It will definitly cost you.
Brian

[natewelding]

I charge similar to brian. I charge $120 an hour on the table, $90 for programming/drawing, plus material. Any time i even turn the machine on to cut something it costs $20 no matter what size the part is.

[beefy]

[quote="BrianMickAs a steel supplier myself I can explain why there would be such a "loose" tolerance and low prices on the plasma side of cutting. We tend to make our money "hacking" out rough sheets for customers by running the big tables as fast as we can for 8-10 hours a day straight and make our money moving larger qty's of weight. The faster I can knock out a sheet the More sheets I can sell. Steel suppliers don't make their money on small art projects. If I was to quote all of the jobs that come past me by the pierce and all of the other little theorys that every one has on pricing, there just would not be enough time in the day......I quote everything time and material.......120.00 bucks an hour+material. I do have a 25.00 minimum If you want me to slow my machine down for a tighter tolerance......It will definitly cost you.
Brian[/quote]

Hi Brian,

that's fair enough but I simply don't understand how ANY cnc machine can go off course by 1 or 2 mm simply because it's being run fast. I could understand corners could be affected due to the fast direction changes but not a straight line run being off by such a large amount. The edge is straight with next to no bevel so what makes it move over 2mm. My table for instance has approx. 93 steps per mm on the X axis in the motor calibration (steppers), so 2mm is 186 steps wrong. A table is effectively malfunctioning if that is happening.

So if you could explain how running a table fast makes it go 2mm off course, I'd love to learn about that.

I also found it rather shocking that the supplier didn't mention this "rough cut" when I ordered my rectangular plate. It doesn't matter to me for my purpose but when you order something cnc cut with high definition plasma which is supposed to rival laser accuracy, you don't expect things to be off by this amount. It should be mentioned if that's the case to see if that's acceptable to the customer. 2mm short could be important depending on how the plate is used.

The guy also didn't give any option of a higher price to "make the table run to the correct dimensions". He just said with plasma cutting you have to accept a tolerance of 1 to 2mm. That's what made my eyes go big and round. I didn't ask for the profile cutting service, the seller suggested it to me as an alternative to me using my own cnc table. He was talking about the shape cutting, not just chopping the rectangle out. I wouldn't even offer a service like that if I expected the cut shape to be 2mm out.

Keith.

[planetxfred]

In regards to the sheet being short by a mm or 2 in each way, the kerf has to go somewhere. If you take a sheet exactly 48 X 96 and cut it in half, you will end up with each sheet being a bit short, If the size was specified, did you give an acceptable tolerance? If you are asking for a precision cut, expect to pay more.
Some end up out of square due to sloppiness (result of rushing or not caring.
In regards to pricing, Most of my jobs are either very simple shapes or the customer supplies a DXF file.
I keep it simple. I multiply the inches of cutpath, add one for each pierce, multiply by the thickness. Thats the cutting charge. (an 8 inch square cut from 3/8 material is $12.37 for cutting, plus material which I round up to the nearest 1/2 square foot although my best customer is my steel supplier so they provide material.
That makes it simple and quick to quote, takes into account speed of cutting and wear and tear on consumables.
Fred

[beefy]

Of course the kerf has to go somewhere but it's certainly not normal for it to be within the cut area, thereby giving a different size cut to what was asked for. A high end industrial Esab cutting table with precision plasma will have software with it's very basic functions being to compensate for the kerf width. Any cutting speed has a certain kerf width and so it's easilly compensated for.

Unless the table is faulty, rushing the job will not make the table cut out of square. The corners could possibly get rounded but the axis will still maintain there correct paths.

And if a two 700mm width plates were going to be chopped out of a 1400mm wide peice of plate, the customer should be informed about the resulting dimension being a bit less than 700.

The steel supplier has advertising material showing off their precision plasma table that they use to process plate for customers. No mention of this only being for "special cases" where you want a tolerance better than 2mm. Don't advertise something as the norm then do hack jobs on the customers orders. Inform them if loose tolerances are normal, and see if that's OK. That's certainly what I'd do if I was going to supply a cut part 2mm out, when my advertising material shows off precision cutting gear.

As someone who has built and operated my own cnc plasma table with just a basic air plasma I don't understand what this talk of paying extra for a precision cut is all about. Is a tolerance tighter than 2mm considered precision ?? For a given nozzle size and feedrate there's a given kerf width, the cam software accounts for this, the cut is done and it comes out pretty close if nothing is faulty.

Keith.

[planetxfred]

I missed a part of what I described as sloppy. Most places will use one or two edges of the sheet when possible to reduce cutting time. If it is a rectangular part, they will not cut the entire part. If they are sloppy in placing the sheet, it can be off in one or both directions or even be skewed a bit. If they don't take the time to double check that the sheet is against the stops you can expect it to be off (and almost always short.
Fred

[beefy]

Thanks for the info Fred.

Armed with this new knowledge and experience of steel suppliers advertising their "precision" plate processing machinery, I'll make sure I tell them a tolerance if the dimesions are ever that important.

Keith.

[tm america]

Man those are some super low prices guys..who wants to cut my parts for me..I don,t use my machine unless it is making me 500 per hour..When i first got into this i needed a 4x8 sheet of 1/4 inch cut and a 4x4 of 1/4 inch they gave me a price of 1700 do to it.. And that was with me supplying the dxfs and material...I had my friend do it for 300 and thought that was a killer deal..Now my average i am making is 750 per hour running my machine.. it isnt worth my labor,electricity,consumibles, and other shop supplies to do it for less..having someone cut my parts At 150 an hour i would make 600 an hour not doing anything ?To me there are way to many hidden costs to do it that cheap?what does gas cost and time to go pick up materials?time to order consumibles? time to drain the water from the air tank?chemicals for the water table?

[weldor2005]

Man those are some super low prices guys..who wants to cut my parts for me..I don,t use my machine unless it is making me 500 per hour..When i first got into this i needed a 4x8 sheet of 1/4 inch cut and a 4x4 of 1/4 inch they gave me a price of 1700 do to it.. And that was with me supplying the dxfs and material...I had my friend do it for 300 and thought that was a killer deal..Now my average i am making is 750 per hour running my machine.. it isnt worth my labor,electricity,consumibles, and other shop supplies to do it for less..having someone cut my parts At 150 an hour i would make 600 an hour not doing anything ?To me there are way to many hidden costs to do it that cheap?what does gas cost and time to go pick up materials?time to order consumibles? time to drain the water from the air tank?chemicals for the water table?

Wow! Where is your market at? With your prices I would make two monthly payments on my table per hour of cutting!

If you dont mind me asking, what do you wreckon your PM to be?

[JJsCustomDesigns]

$750.00 an hour?? Geeezus. Where are you from and what kind of parts do you make?? Ive never seen anyones prices that high. There are a few shops aroundmy neck of the woods that are $150 an hour basic welding/labor. I charge $50/hour for CAD/CNC related stuff and $50/hour for welding & labor. Usually ill charge per inch for the plasma cutting.

[kbenz]

$750.00 per hour. must be workin for the government. I've worked for large fab shops that didn't charge anywhere near that. where are you at?

[mdwalker]

When I am running my cnc plasma table I usually average $150 - $250 per hour, although I don't actually charge by the hour but by the part. I use the Excel price calculation sheet that I developed and posted on this site a few years back and I rarely deviate from those prices. For general shop/welding I charge $45 per hour plus materials and supplies.

[x5er30]

I have a questions in regards to the (cnc plasma price work sheet) just want to say, thanks to walker for giving it up.I built my table little over a year ago now, and have been doing little jobs here and there for fun. and I'm also one of many that just can't seem to charge right. either I'm to cheap or to expensive. funny how people just don;t want to pay for custom or quality or unique work. i see on the work sheet where it says to input time for design work, but nothing for time and material ( flap discs DA sanding discs) for cleaning up DROS and mill scale. I'm wondering if i should add that into another field like break it down into pierce cost? or material cost? or maybe a good idea could be to add another field just below the design time for labor and misc. supplies? or maybe change the design time field and add ( design time / or labor and supplies used) if no design time ? I'm thinking another field separate for labor and supplies. but I'm not an excel person. maybe someone can make this change? just a thought.

[jimcolt]

My son and I do not charge by the hour, rather we charge using a formula for length of cut based on material type and thickness. There are provisions for profit on the material, the cutting of the material and there are adders that we tack on for labor such as weldin,drilling, acid dip, painting, etc. We keep a close watch on our quoting process and generally average between a $60 and $100 per hour after the costs are all covered (shop overhead, materials, etc.) Ours is a hobby shop that makes enough income to cover new tools and a decent level of pay for the work...it is not our full time occupation. If it was a full time job I suspect we would have to up the numbers so that we would average between $90 and $130 per hour.

Part of the issue in small shops is figuring out how to separate the time spent doing the physical work vs the desk work (job quoting, sales, phone calls, CAD drawing, chatting with visitors, etc). In a hobby shop you generally don't wory about the non value added time, if you are earning a living in your shop....it has to be of higher importance!

Jim Colt