Hi from Australia

[Jaffakatie]

Hi everyone
I'm new to plasma cutting and CNC, but having seen some results in the decorative side of things about a year ago and I was really taken with it. So looked into it and found out it's plasma cut with CNC table. I especially liked custom art from peoples photos.
Well my husband has had a mobile welding business for many years. He has an el cheapo hand held plasma cutter for odd things, and after an accident a couple of years ago where his sight is now very reduced (can't have a drivers licence and we live out of town on a farm) it makes the "mobile" part of the business very hard. And likely in a year my off-farm work is coming to an end. So I thought maybe we can get into making a lot more stuff at home so hubby doesn't need to travel building cattle yards and farm sheds and so forth, and I can do the design and sales aspects. Even though we are both pretty fit and healthy for late 50s we aren't getting any younger - he doesn't really need to be up sheeting roofs with his sight I reckon - though he does it all twice as good and fast and any people we have working for us occasionally.
I've already read various threads on here including the beginner ones. I have fairly good computing skills but only basic when it comes to using photoshop, I'll be able to set up a retail web site too I suspect (I manage web sites now). I have started doing some Inkscape tutorials. Hubby's computing skills are almost nil - he can surf the web, that's about all.
I think we are likely best with an inexpensive ready made machine to see how we go.
I've almost decided on a Langmuir Crossfire Pro 8x4 set up. Including the Razorweld 45 cutter. I see the recommendations on various threads for a Hypertherm instead, but at a substantial price increase. Hopefully I can get it shipped to Australia. I see order now for January shipping.
We do not have an existing business in this decorative metalart type space (hubby's work has been functional - mostly farm stuff- sheds, cattle and sheep yards, repairing or making farm equipment like stick rakes, dog boxes for utes, trailers etc, and all custom work), so I think best we start out small just in case we really hate the retail side!! (but the Crossfire original is too small for anything useful I reckon - e.g. property signs, gates etc.)
I spent a few hours at a local steelworks with the fellow that has a big commercial machine and they make lots of industrial stuff, so I learned a little bit about the machine and process. I was going to start by giving them work to cut but they are pretty flat out. I'd prefer the freedom to do it ourself.
We have plenty to do now - building own new cattleyards, lots farm work, I run the sheep and cattle, as well as a couple of days a week off-farm work - hence I don't think DIY tables would be a good idea for us - too much to learn. Of course, on a budget till we find that this could be a money maker for us. I like the idea of getting into decorative-functional items, i.e. not just pretty things to hang on the wall, but things like decorative gates and doors, and signs, and where possible customised to target a higher value market, rather than lots of identical cheap items. Also, maybe not decorative, but custom functional items, e.g. racks to fit specific places or on quad bikes etc.
So here I am looking for lots of info, and I'm already finding good stuff here, but there's an awful lot for a beginner to take in.
If anyone thinks there is a better low cost but good value starter set up than the Crossfire Pro, and Razorweld (remembering I am in Australia) then please let me know. I accept this is not a real heavy duty commercial machine, but it appears the table works quite well and there is good sales support for it.Hope that the Razorweld is also good value for the price and would at least work well for the sorts of stuff we'd be doing which would not be high volume nor big heavy industrial.
thanks!
Deb

[Rodw]

Deb, welcome from another Aussie. I'm based in Brisbane and grew up with sheep and cattle in western Queensland. I would urge caution on importing a table or controller from overseas. the freight cost won't be cheap either (I do imports pretty regularly). I do know one person who found importing a controller was an expensive mistake.

By the sound of it, you are more than capable of fabricating a table but the electronics and motor selection etc is a big learning curve. I'll send you a PM with some Aussie made ideas if thats OK.

Based on my experience, with a couple of cheapies, I think if you have the budget, you are better off starting with a name brand machine with cutting charts. The Hypertherm 45XP stands out in this area provided its duty cycle is OK for your application. I'm not sure if the Unimigs have a CNC interface. Last time I looked they didn't. Whilst that is not a showstopper, it removes one more chance of something going wrong. You could also look at the Everlast 50s which has a CNC port. see https://www.everlast-welders.com.au/pro ... Plasma_50S

[Jaffakatie]

Hi Rodw
Oh bummer, don't tell me that!!
I reckon the electronics would beat us trying to make our own. Yes send me a pm, that would be much appreciated. We're near Guyra NSW but lived Julia Creek, Dalby, Toowoomba, Clifton. I grew up in Brisbane. So what are the key issues in getting one from overseas? Matching our voltage? Something else?
Thanks

[Rodw]

Hmm, I grew up around Cunnamulla and Charleville and lived in Towoomba, Roma, Atherton, Stanthorpe and a few other sundry Queensland destinations before coming to Brisbane.

I think the real issue with importing is lack of support and you are on your own. If something breaks its expensive to get spares and difficult to diagnose faults conclusively. Plus you really want control of the import process so you don't get screwed with usurious customs clearance fees or documentation errors that cause delays that incur storage fees.

I did send you a PM so look forward to hearing from you.

[rdj357]

Plasmacam has a big presence in Australia through a couple distributors so support is in-country. One of them is Metalform - https://www.plasmacam.com.au/

Anyway, do your research and welcome to the plasma cutting world if you decide to jump in!

[acourtjester]

Welcome aboard, it is great you have done your basic research. Even better member from your side of the world have replied, having the experience in the shipping and customs section to give real info for starting up. Great to see RadW will contact you as he is very knowledgeable in the controller/electronics and software section of CNC. With your computer skills once you get the big picture things will make sense and you will move right along. Good luck and have fun, the day you cut the first part it will be hard to get the big smile off you and your husbands face.

[Jaffakatie]

Thanks rdj357 and acourtjester!!

[34by151]

Hi Deb,

I'm on the Sunshine coast. I have a panther 1325 plasma/router table. These are made in China but the distributor/importer is in Gosford.
Have been very happy with it so far. Opted for a Hypertherm plasma to go with it.
Have had the panther for a few years now and at the time helped delvelop the version we have.
The main change was combining plasma and router. We can swap the plasma THC head for a 2KW router
Works great for both
https://pantherengineering.trado.com.au ... dlIjoiMyJ9

[Rodw]

I have a panther 1325 plasma/router table.

Just be aware that plasma and milling/routing have two totally different set of design parameters. Plasma benefits from light construction becasue there are no cutting forces and velocity and acceleration are king! The faster you can accelerate out of a corner back to cut velocity, the less time cutting outside the manufacturer's specs for the material being cut. Routing on the other hand needs a more rigid, heavier construction to cope with the cutting forces.

[johno down under]

hi Jaffakatie, another aussie here, i'm now based down south..... that little island hanging off the bottom.
A few years back i went through the same process that you are now going through.
I ended up taking the easy way and bought a complete unit from metalform, they have been great with backup service and information they also have an agent in Queensland.
i have been able to pay for my unit in 3 years.
When you get started if i can help with a few aussie designs just drop me a pm and i'll send what i can.
Cheers Johno (tassie)

[34by151]

I have a panther 1325 plasma/router table.

Just be aware that plasma and milling/routing have two totally different set of design parameters. Plasma benefits from light construction becasue there are no cutting forces and velocity and acceleration are king! The faster you can accelerate out of a corner back to cut velocity, the less time cutting outside the manufacturer's specs for the material being cut. Routing on the other hand needs a more rigid, heavier construction to cope with the cutting forces.

The machine is purpose built to do both. Essentially a router gantry with a water table and servo driven.
I have no issues with the acceleration for plasma or cutting forces in router mode

[Rodw]

The machine is purpose built to do both. Essentially a router gantry with a water table and servo driven.
I have no issues with the acceleration for plasma or cutting forces in router mode

Thats exactly my point. Once you build a gantry to handle a router, the weight stacks on and and this is then at the expense of acceleration so quality suffers. You may not notice but having upgraded my table recently to 36 m/min rapids and up to 8 m/sec^2 acceleration (roughly 0.8 G), the difference is noticeable. Corners are sharper and holes are crisper. Also, it lets the THC start working faster as it gets to speed faster. But the inertia creates another set of problems to solve.

I backed off to 5 m/s^2 acceleration for a bit of headroom which means if I'm cutting at say 2.2 m/min which is a common speed for me, it takes 7 milliseconds to get to cutting speed after a pierce.

A good contrasting commercial example would be to look at a plasmacam machine (light and built for speed) and Brisbane made Advanced Robotic Technology (ART) plasma machines. ART came from a background of making routers so their gantry is built like a tank and I do know people who will not buy their machines becasue of this as they know they are too slow. Plus maybe they fell a bit short of the $150k entry level ART machine..

[34by151]

Rod, I get you dont like my table and that's your opinion
Contrary to what you may think it cuts very well and I'm very happy with what I got for 30K.
I did testing on the plasmacam prior to purchase and the cut quality was not better
As for cutting speed the fastest I cut is 8250mm/min using the hypertherm 45xp but most cuts are made with the hypertherm 105 at 2260mm/min

[Rodw]

it not that I dislike your table. Its just that a prospective new buyer should be aware of what they give up by going the route of a multipurpose machine. There is enough decisions ahead of them as it is already!

[34by151]

I agree that is true on the lower end of the market especially if you are talking stepper drives.
The faster you run a stepper the less torque you have where servos have high torque at high speed.
Acceleration is related to both your the resistance of the gantry and the size of the motor.

For a given speed, better guides, lower weight mean you can have a small motor.
Increase the load and you need a bigger motor
Its all about matching the motor for the application

Not all heaver gantries have acceleration issues just like not all light ones dont have issues

Putting paper specs aside the most important thing is to decide on some machines in your price range then do some real world tests on each of them.
No machine is cheep, you want to be able to test it and make sure it does what you want, before laying out the cash.
When I purchased my machine I travel to Sydney and Melbourne and down to Brisbane from the Sunshine Coast to test machines.

[Jaffakatie]

Hi fellow Aussies and thanks for your thoughts.
Tomorrow I'm getting hubby to set up his el cheapo hand held plasma cutter to have a go free-hand.
Our local metal fab guy told me it was easy!! So has inspired me to have a go.
I'm coming from the end where I've seen what these things can produce and want to do that, not from the metalworking experience end. I have lots of ideas for designs and end products, just not the practical skills or equipment.
I definitely need to do some learning on the design work too, such as Inkscape.
But it's rather overwhelming, there is just SO MUCH to learn!

[acourtjester]

Inkscape ins great free software package with a large number of YouTube tutorial videos, many have also turned to Fusion 360.
The main thing is finding what works for you, this is sometimes just a visual type of thing. The cartoon I attached gives a good representation of how things can be. (thanks to Rob C) When you start to see the big picture it starts making sense and becomes easier to learn. It seems you have good grasp on the direction you want to go, just need a little data to help you get there, and start making money. PM with tutorials sent from here

[Jaffakatie]

Thanks Tom, have replied.
Is Fusion 360 an alternative to Inkscape - i.e. they do the same function? What about Sheetcam? I'm a bit confused that there are different programs, but some do different jobs to each other, so I don't understand the types of software needed (i.e e their jobs) versus the brand for each type. I'll have a look to see if there is a software forum.

[acourtjester]

Ok there is like 3 steps, you start with drawings ( either you draw them, download free ones or buy ones). The next step is a CAM software (sheetCam is a great on) this creates a plan for the operation. It will look at the drawing and you select options like speed, thickness of the cut material, where to start the operation, add more cut operation. The SheetCam program also has a large library of files for many of the different electronics packages that can be used to control a table (some function differently). It creates a G-code that the table electronics use to complete the operation which is step 3.
There is a big difference between Inkscape and Fusion 360, Inkscape is more along the lines of a art type program. Fusion 360 is more toward a 3-D drawing program, for Plasma you use 2-Drawing they both can do that. Fusion 360 you can draw things like a finished part, or an assembly. You can rotate it and look at it from all sides. I would recommend starting with Inkscape and later you may move on to Fusion 360. One way to look at is if you wanted to make a fire pit you know it take a few different parts which are easy to draw, with Fusion 360 you could take those parts and draw an assembled fire pit as a way to see if they all fit.
2 more links from the Google drive